Official Luthiers Forum!

Quick Question:

I Recently resawed some beautiful cocobolo for use as fretboards.  As such, they require a great deal of sanding.  Cocobolo is aweful in terms of how easily and quickly it loads up any paper.  In conversations with Lance, he has suggested that some people bake it to force out the resin....

Has anyone done this, and if so what are the general rules of thumb for time and temperature?  Is it a good idea at all?

 

Thanks

Stephen

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com

350* for 30 minutes. Test with a toothpick to see if done.  

Just Kidding !!!!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I hope it is that simple :)

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com

Kiln drying rosewoods does tend to cause resins to be forced out of woods but even kiln drying is done at a relatively low temperature over a longer period of time as case hardening can result when wood is heated too hot, too quick. Case hardening is when the outside of the wood is heated but the inner part of the wood is not heated as high. The result is increased instability of the wood and doesnt really accomplish the intended result in that the resin in the inner part of the wood is still present and can come out later.

A better way to sand rosewood and other resinous woods is to use an open coat non-loading sandpaper and to clean the belt often with a sanding belt cleaner.

A better alternative yet is to plane and/or scrape the surface to thickness as it does not raise dust and a finely tuned and sharpened plane or scraper will do the job faster than sanding.

You can remove some of the surface oils and resins by wiping down the surface with alcohol or naptha and in general is a good practice when gluing Cocobolo or other "oily" woods.

Thanks so much for the help, Shawn

 

Stephen

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com

I am pretty sure that the reason people bake the resins out of coco is to make for better glue adhesion.
I would have to dig in some very old emails, but if I recall it was 250* for 3 or 4 hours.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I never heard of baking wood for better glue adhesion. It isn't necessary for good gluing. What I have heard of is baking back and sides for stability.

At fingerboard thickness, you can use a planer. When you pass it through a sander, it will load less if you run it at an angle to the grain.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I have never planed Coco before - is there a tear-out problem at all?

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com

only if it is wild grained... and as Howard mentioned if you angle the wood in the planer it shears the cut.

I plane coco fretboards all the time. Sharp blades and feed thru on an angle. Works well.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Baking Cocobolo sounds like a good way to become allergic to it if you are not already.

Al

[QUOTE=A Peebels] Baking Cocobolo sounds like a good way to become allergic to it if you are not already.

Al[/QUOTE]

I was just thinking the same thing. Filling up the house with fumes will expose the whole family.

That is, if the compound in cocobolo that's responsible for the allergic reaction comes out during baking (or side bending).

Why would you want to bake a cocobolo fingerboard? We spend all of our time trying to keep ebony fingerboards and such oiled up. I've never had a problem with a cocobolo fingerboard drying out. So why try to get rid of the oils? I have over-baked cocobolo sides while bending them. And while it does sand better, it does not remove any of the toxic dust that so many of us are worried about.

I've never had many problems gluing cocobolo together. Only had one problem where the kerfing didn't adhere, and that was because the sides were too finely sanded for the glue to take hold.

The best thing about cocobolo is using it for bindings. It doesn't take any water and you can bend it any way you want to with the right amount of heat. And as soon as it cools it stays in that position.

Lance

mccollumguitars.com

Too finely sanded for the glue to hold?....

It would seem that since a joint prepared with a plane or a scraper is a suerior joint to one that is sanded, it would be very difficult to sand a joint too finely - assuming it was done accurately.

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

edit: *superior

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

I agree with all of you - and the reason that I was thinking about baking the coco first was to ease up the amount of sandpaper I will go through when applying the radius...But when all is said and done, I suppose it is better to have a naturally oiled fretboard than use some extra 3M...

And surface roughness contributes to the mechanical adhesion of most glues - especially when there is not a strong chemical bonding - so I suppose it is possible to sand a joint too finely; but this is probably unattainable with wood, given its relatively open grain structure...Anyway

Thank you guys so much again.  It is amazing how much people know and have experience with.

Stephen

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com

The mechanical adhesion of any glue except epoxy is pretty much irrelevant, and even with epoxy I think it is overrated. The problem with sanding too fine is that it packs the pores with fine sanding dust. If that dust is not removed, it reduces surface area. It's also unlikely that after all that sanding one would still have a plane surface.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Actually, "mechanical adhesion" is an oxymoron. Adhesion is a chemical attraction that takes place on the level of molecules.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

And when do we get to edit posts again?

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Perhaps if everyone leaves and/or stops posting until the software is updated, they'll get the hint. I was once a Union Man; shall we have a strike vote?

Or, if the sponsors pull the plug, maybe then?

No reason for this archaic system with the traffic and revenue being generated here.

Give me a break please

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Give us an edit button, and we'll grant the break <g>

until such a time....

Yeah, Deep Pockets!!!  

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I think the employer/employee model is inapt here.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.