Official Luthiers Forum!

Had a great time meeting you guys at the Symposium-and seeing and hearing your instruments in person.
While I was there I picked up a nice section of elephant ivory from the Duke of pearl. I am selling bridge blanks,nuts, saddles,inlay stock etc.
Thanks, Brad

Are you offering papers to prove that it's legal (not poached). I would bet that you'll get very little action if you aren't. It's also a pretty necessary way to cover your tail feathers.

paper work and prices if possible brad?

Most old ivory, which this is, does not have papers and they really can't be created. Only the post-Cites stuff is papered. I almost bought this at ASIA. Brad beat me to it. Nice old ivory, very stable.

The problem with this is that the liability of proof now falls on the builder. For example: if I sell a guitar with ivory appointments, and someone raises a stink, I have to somehow prove that it is old material. How would I possibly do that without paperwork?

The legal burden is not on you with respect to ivory, unless of course you import it, but you may face a moral burden put on you by your customer. There is a lot of "legal" ivory sold in this country every year that doesn't have papers. That includes most old pianos and a number of other objects which were built before Cites ever existed. A lot of old ivory is sold from estates where grandpa had a pretty fancy trophy room from his early days. Customs has pretty effectively shut down illegal importation of ivory, since the value isn't really high enough for smugglers to take the risk. And the prices haven't escallated as much as expected because of the ready availability of mastodon ivory and the stigma attached to elephant ivory that has dimished demand.

A bigger problem is probably all the Brazilian Rosewood being sold that is presummably from "cut trunks" or "old boards" that are miraculously found in the loft of an abandoned barn. No papers on most of that either. Same problem, just hasn't gotten as much press.

Jerry,
Most dealers of ivory will have a document proving that the material is legal. The reason most people avoid the documentation is it's a very lengthy process and involves everything but your right arm.
I was lucky when I found my stash of old Brazilian rosewood. The first thing I did when I got the boards cut into sets was apply for a USDA permit and a CITES permit. I was very fortunate to obtain the original shipping papers as well as a letters and receipts proving the age of my Brazilian rosewood. It was a VERY long process to get all of the documentation together but I jumped through the hoops and I'm glad I did. I agree that there's a lot of Brazilian rosewood around. Most of what I've seen is either the stumpwood or material imported just before the ban of 1991/92. The stumpwood is easy to spot, the wavy grain is the give away and the material imported before the ban tends to have a light/brown, grey coloration. As a person who sells the old stuff, I do get the question "Is this stumpwood?" often and anyone that's been around Brazilian rosewood should know what stumpwood looks like.

brad

i'll just have to remember not to put it on one i'll be sending back to australia.

what are you going to be ashing for the the blanks?

You're right about the dealers in ivory Steve, but the only one I know of is Warther in Ohio and his prices make his certificates an expensive add on. Very little ivory imported before the ban had documentation such as you were fortunate to find with your BR cache. Ivory is still legally imported today from those countries which follow Cites procedures, but not much of it.

The cost for documenting a few hundred dollars worth of old ivory is hardly worth the effort. Certainly, the piece Brad bought wouldn't be worth the bother. I personally don't understand why people do bother dealing in it. The aggrevation isn't worth the effort. I guess they do it as a service to their customers who want to use something for which there is simply no natural or manmade equivalent.

Jerry,
I can't agree more. In the years that I did repair work I had many customers who insisted on using ivory nuts and saddles because that's what Martin used on their prewar guitars. Therefore they HAD to have it and would stop at nothing to get it. I still believe that good old fashion bone is just as good. I've hand made many, many, many nuts and saddles over the years and I never heard any discernable difference between ivory or bone.
But....there are quite a few folks out there who HAVE to have ivory and ......the customer is always right or....he who has the money makes the rules. I know in the past I picked up ivory when I did a lot of repair work especially for vintage restorations.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Hi guys,
According to Chuck Erikson (The Duke of Pearl) who I bought it from, this ivory is on the up and up-roughly from the 30's and needs no paperwork.
Anyway, the nuts are $10. saddles $12. and bridge blanks $80. all blanks are cut generously oversize. I can also custom cut for inlays,heel caps,truss rod covers, etc.
Thanks, Brad

brad

i'll have five each of the nut and saddle blanks. how much are the blanks for heel caps and truss rod covers?

an ivory bridge blank? never seen a bridge done in ivory on a modern instrument though i've seen somewhere photos of baroque or romantic era instuments with them.crazymanmichael38525.5398032407

I remember seeing one modern guitar with an ivory bridge. It was stunning! To bad ivory can't be shipped into Canada.

Josh

_________________
Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Michael,
Thanks for the order.
A piece big enough for a heel cap and truss rod cover- 1/8"X1"X3-1/2" for $25.
Many C.F Martin guitars in the early part of this century came with ivory (pyramid) bridges and binding as well. I have seen luthiers replicating these instruments use them today.

Brad, I would like to purchase 2 saddles and 2 nuts. I sent you an email.

Thanks,

Hi Brad,
I'll take 3 of the Ivory nuts and 3 of the Ivory saddles. I tried sending you an email. Paypal works for me if it works for you. THANKS

p.s. I don't need no stinkin papers...

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

JUst for Anyone who is interested thier is a piece on Frank Fords Site Frets.Com, where he carves a pyramid bridge from Ivory, to repair an old Martin Instrument.