Official Luthiers Forum!

Being maybe the newest and certainly the oldest kid on the block, I want to thank so many of you OLFers who made me feel so welcome and answered so many of my stupid questions at the ASIA Symposium. It was an extraordinary experience for anyone in luthery, but I think it's especially helpful for a newcomer to see and understand what everyone is talking about by actually being there and participating in both the formal sessions and the unending informal chats that went on day and night.

Besides that, I heard some of the best music I've ever experienced. Steve Couch was amazing (there thanks to Matt Gage) and each evening he was a magnet for some other great players who many times seemed to write as they played, playing off each other like they'd been playing together for years, and were just wonderful to listen to. I've gained a whole new respect for resophonic guitars (Matt's was spectacular) and the "jazz" mandolin. WOW!

Thanks again to all, and especially John Hall and Bob C who kept me out of trouble (most of the time).

Jerry it was certainly a pleasure to meet you. I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Your right the music was awesome.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Jerry
    The pleasure was all mine. You made my week. Thanks for helping out our little friend Craig. I hope we cross paths again . Keep in touch. The seeds were well planted and God knows I spread the fertilizer LOL
Yours
john

Jerry it was terrific meeting you. I am so glad you where there to share in that moment with the us.

I will never forget it.
I would really like to know more about your knives, could you post some pics for us??

Matt

Jerry it was great meeting you! Please feel free to hang out here with us guys. You may not build guitars, but we'll just consider you an "Honorary Luthier".
Don Williams38523.8685416667

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Don, it's my honor to hang out with you guys and my determination to rid myself of that "honorary" tag and make a guitar (or two) this year. Thanks all for the warm and easy welcome.

In the meantime, I grind steel. Here's one I did recently for a show.



and another pic a customer sent me after he had the knife sheathed.



[edited to add:] It struck me as soon as I saw this post how different is what I do compared with the elegant beauty of a guitar. Guess that's why I'm trying to reform...   

Jerry Hossom38523.8201157407

Jerry, those are some nice looking knives. But I just hate it when the knife folks outbid for bridge blanks. One thing for sure, you won't have any trouble keeping your chisels, planes, etc. sharp. I'm sure with your experience for detail you won't have problems building a nice guitar.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Well Don, on one hand I feel badly for outbidding you. --sorry--

On the other hand I'm feeling pretty good about picking that item to bid on. If you wanted it, it must have been a decent choice.

When I began knifemaking over 20 years ago, I bought a ton of handle materials before I'd ever made my first knife. Most of it was garbage and I still have at least half of it (not sure why). I'm pretty sure the same applies to much of the guitar wood I've bought in the past couple months (Zoot excepted of course). I'm confident I have 5-6 back/side sets and maybe as many tops that will never see the inside of a guitar. Might make for some interesting bindings and practice soundboards though.

Glad to have you at the OLF!

A request: Would you share your process for sharpening your knives? I can get a nice edge on chisel, plane and straight-edged "luthier" blades, but curved knive edges seem to be a whole different animal.

Thanks,
Carlton

Hmmm....seems to me that you said you were a "Hack" of a knife maker, and that all you really did was just roughly "grind away at some steel until it looks like a knife." It would seem you were being WAY overly-modest... Those are fantastic knives. You're a true Craftsman.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Yeah, I checked out your site earlier.... very cool.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Jerry, it was indeed nice to meet you. I also checked our your website, very very impressive handy work!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Thanks for the kind remarks. It's kind of awkward hearing that from those I deem the real craftsmen here.

Sharpening...

The key to sharpening anything is to hold a constant angle while the knife moves so the edge is at all times perpendicular to the abrasive. Along curvy knife edges that means the blade has to rotate to keep everything at 90 degrees.

In my opinion, a small belt sander is the best and easiest way to sharpen knives and I've also switched a few woodworkers in that direction. I recently demonstrated to some knife buffs how a cheap $30, 1 x 30" Harbor Freight Belt Sander could put an amazing edge on almost any knife in less than 5 minutes, starting with some blades that were pretty badly abused. Depending on how far out of shape the edge is, I start with an 80 micron belt, go to 15 microns, then to a leather belt with white chromium oxide to polish off the wire edge that forms on the abrasive belts. I got the belts from Lee Valley.

I use the area of the belt above the platen where it is slack and can form a natural convex edge as it works. The convex edge really does cut best, and that's what many woodworkers I know now use for their chisels. A polished convex edge will cut through wood like nothing you've ever imagined.

Hope that helps, but I'd be glad to answer questions. I sure owe some answers after all those I've gotten on here that have made my venture into luthery more promising.

Thanks for the info. I've heard that a lot of knife sharpeners use a 1" belt sander, but I hadn't gotten any further details. Very helpful.

[QUOTE=Jerry Hossom] The convex edge really does cut best, and that's what many woodworkers I know now use for their chisels.[/QUOTE]

Wow! That opens a can of worms! First flat, then hollow grind, then micro bevels...now CONVEX chisel edges? Good golly!!!

Carlton

Carlton, the operative words there were "woodworkers I know".

If you think about it, it makes sense to round over the shoulder at the top of the edge bevel. It dramatically reduces drag in a cut, especially with a material like wood.

If you make the whole edge convex, parabolic as in the shape of a deflected belt, you can simultaneously make the edge angle just a bit steeper and completely remove the edge to shaft transition. That makes the edge stronger to resist microchipping, reduces cutting resistance, and because the side of the bevel is working for you more efficiently as a wedge it cuts better and faster through wood and most other things. Happy, happy, happy.

If you do nothing else though, that leather belt with a tiny bit of aluminum oxide is worth its weight in Brazilian Rosewood. It not only strops the edge to a super fineness, but it also polishes the whole bevel to make it slide through wood like it wasn't there. You can even use it to trim your sideburns while your at it. When you need to touch it up, the leather belt of often enough. If not, a few seconds on 15 microns will get you back to sharp.    Jerry Hossom38525.3943518519

Jerry,

Yep, it all makes perfect sense for a curved knife, but I don't know if I'd ever have made the intellectual leap to apply it to a chisel. I'll have to give it a try when I get around to buying a 1" belt.

Just FYI, though, I think you'll find you're going to want a couple of flat-backed chisels handy when you start building instruments (or jigs,too). There'll be times when you'll want to true a surface or square a corner by laying the tool flat on it's back.

Thanks again,
Carlton

The "back" being the pointy side or the bevel side? You can always round the top of the bevel just a little. Any rounding at all makes it cut more smoothly in my experience, but then again most of my cutting experience is of a fairly destructive nature as in cutting firewood or maybe making a tool/shelter/trap/snare/etc. Even the latter are pretty crude compared with shaping braces though.

Jerry,

Back = long, flat side. I know, it can be confusing, since most of the experts I've read consider the "back" to actually be the cutting edge, with the bevel being something that meets and supports it. That's why they stress that the backs of plane blades, for instance, need to be absolutely flat and defect-free (no bumps, no chips, no pits), because that's what is doing all the cutting work. A lot of people put most of their effort into the bevel while ignoring the scratches and pits on the back, and they don't get a good edge. But you probably knew that, so I'll stop now.

Carlton

The convex I'm speaking of doesn't touch the back. And I agree with you the back side of the edge needs just as much care and attention as the bevel side. Both together shape the part that cuts, and ultimately fails and goes dull.