Official Luthiers Forum!

I picked up a set of beautiful Argentine Osage Orange from Bob C a few months back - just wondering if anyone had any experience with this stuff?  Rings like a bell, but feels more like steel than wood....any recommendations for a side thickness for bending?  It is unfigured and I bend by hand if that helps....

Thanks,

 

Laurie W

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

[QUOTE=LaurieW]

I picked up a set of beautiful Argentine Osage Orange from Bob C a few months back - just wondering if anyone had any experience with this stuff? Rings like a bell, but feels more like steel than wood....any recommendations for a side thickness for bending? It is unfigured and I bend by hand if that helps....

Thanks,

Laurie W

[/QUOTE]

As much as this stuff gets talked about, not many instruments have been built with it as far as I know. I believe Al Carruth has experience with it, insofar as OLF members go. Good luck, Laurie.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Yes, please keep us informed. I would like to do a lute out of this stuff. Try to ask the guy on RC;s website who built one.

 

 

Laurie, Tim McKnight has built with Osage Orange but I am not sure if it was Argentine or domestic. He has been dropping in here on occasion but you might want to send him a PM. You can see pictures of his osage guitar under the models and player links at his web site. McKnight Guitars. Let me know what you find out as I've got a couple of sets myself.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Don, I recall the domestic stuff is a different species than that of the Argentine. Just FYI.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

In the archives - everyone loves the stuff but not a lot of actual builds.  I wish I had bought a couple of sets - a brazilian replacement for around $100 - can't go wrong in my books. 

Maybe I will contact someone since I would like to ask, but I prefer not to bug the professionals with my silly questions

Paint it? Nope - the yellow is growing on me!  But the pics on Bob's sight looks like it will turn brown under finish, so I'll wait and see....

Laurie

 

 

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Yeah, the Argentine stuff is a different species: it's a dyewood that is often called 'fustic', which is used to make kakhi color, iirc. It sure looks and works like the American Osage though.

As far as I can tell from the samples I've tested, both of those woods are direct drop-in replacements for BRW in terms of mechanical and acoustic properties. I've made a half dozen guitars of Osage, and one of my students built one of the Argentine wood, and they've all been good. One steel string I made of Osage sold at H'burg in about two hours, and the Osage classical I had at the last Newport show was said by many to be my best classical yet.

Osage does have a couple of peculiarities. The cross grain stiffness is high, and seems to be much the same whichever way the wood is cut; quartered, flat or in between. It seems pretty stable in use, even though there tends to be a lot of drying degrade. When you bend it, you have to BEND it: it doesn't go limp the way, say, Indian rosewood can. You'll know when it's ready, but you still have to lean on it a bit. Also when bending; don't get it too hot: it will turn dark. This is one wood that makes me wish I had a good sander: although it resists splitting well it does tend to be chippy. It's a good idea to scribe around the sides before you rout for the binding rabbets to prevent chipout.

The color is.....interesting..... Next to Osage many other woods look 'flat'. The H'burg instrument had some very plain grey persimmon binding: I figured if it was going to look flat anyway... On the classical I went the other way, using blue Mahu for the binding, and a lot of bloodwood and mahu along with maple in the trim. ('Blue' Mahu comes from Jamaica, I'm told, and it's generally more of a teal green than true blue.) On both of those guitars I used just a little brown toner in the finish, and it helped to mute the initial orange color. The stuff does turn brown with age.

Finally, as an aside, I got to test a sample of Black Locust, another 'local' B&S wood this weekend, and it looks to have quite similar properties. I'll dig out some more, but it seems that if tone is what you're after, there won't be a lack of decent wood, for a while, at any rate.

Osage (Domestic or Argentine) bends fine at .040" - .085" and holds it shape well in a Fox bender. The wood is very resillient prior to heating it but once it is spritzed/heated/relaxed it will stay put after it is bent to shape.

Be careful if you have any brown streaks in your set as the wood can fracture along these lines quite easily. It is really tough to thickness sand and be careful if you get any sawdust or wood shavings on the concrete floor because it will be slicker than ICE!!!

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks everyone....if anyone is interested or wants to see just what were talking about, here is my set.....

I be sure to report any progress.....

Laurie

 

 

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Fustic

Cheers

Kim

Laurie,

Please let us see your progress on this one! I have a set of that beautiful Argentine coming from Bob as well!

Plus, I have a few sets worth of American Osage Orange, and might let a set or two go in the next OLF Swap Meet, if anyone is interested in trading something.

What are you going to use as a binding scheme for this one, Laurie?

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth]
Finally, as an aside, I got to test a sample of Black Locust, another 'local' B&S wood this weekend, and it looks to have quite similar properties. I'll dig out some more, but it seems that if tone is what you're after, there won't be a lack of decent wood, for a while, at any rate. [/QUOTE]

I'm fascinated by Black Locust, but it is really hard to find wood that is guitar sized - as soon as a tree gets to fence post size, it dissappears. I have two sets sitting around and may try one for a classical next year.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

[QUOTE=DennisLeahy]Laurie,

Please let us see your progress on this one! I have a set of that beautiful Argentine coming from Bob as well!

Plus, I have a few sets worth of American Osage Orange, and might let a set or two go in the next OLF Swap Meet, if anyone is interested in trading something.

What are you going to use as a binding scheme for this one, Laurie?

Dennis[/QUOTE]

I can't wait for the next swap meet - hopefully this one won't coincide with my annual golf trip.  I hate to part with some sets, but how much wood is too much?  This set is a keeper though.....

I haven't thought about the binding scheme yet, but ebony jumped in my head first as a nice contrast.  But it might end up looking like a bubblebee - big and yellow and black.  Any RW is also a consideration too.  I like a simple wooden rosette to match the back and sides, but I would have to make one from cutoffs.  Not sure how to manage that one - I normally buy them pre-cut.

I'm open to suggestions for colour schemes....but I need to build a flamed myrtle/lutz grand auditorium first.....

Laurie

 

 

 

 

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Laurie,

Almost anything looks elegant framed in Ebony. Your bumblebee observation is funny! The Fustic/Osage should age to a light brownish yellow, so maybe it will end up more like a honey bee?

Other binding possibilities might include something to "dress it up", like some curly wood of a light species like Maple (with a black purf), or a medium tone wood like curly Koa, Eucalyptus, Lacewood, Taz Blackwood, or even Snakewood. Even some burnt orange Cocobolo might look cool.

Please treat us with progress pics of your flamed myrtle/lutz grand auditorium.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia