Official Luthiers Forum!

     This is a strange sort of post for me, but i felt like the OLF would be
the right place to place it.

    How would some of you handle this situation if you found yourself in
it?

    As you all know, I was affected by a shoulder injury that disabled me
for nearly a year and kept me out of my shop, which is my income
generator. Many of you were very gracious and generous as you reached
out to help lighten the burden last year and it will never be forgotten. My
question concerns a rather odd situation with a customer.

   He's had a guitar on order with me for some time and had originally
ordered it along with another. The first was delivered a while ago, but this
one's construction was delayed by changes and decisions about design
and wood and appointments and all of the details that pretty commonly
take some time to arrive at. Those decisions were followed by the typical
search fr woods that he liked and even more design changes and
additional options being added.

   Well, the guitar was about 50% complete at the time of my injury and
the beginning of the subsequent layoff it caused so it had to waith for me
to be able to return to work to move ahead any more. I emailed all 150 or
so of my customers at the time of my injury and all but one decided to
stay on board with their orders and allow me the recovery time before I
was able to get back to their guitars. They are a very patient and gracious
bunch of people.

    This particular customer was fine with the added time and just wished
me well as I got on the road to recovery knowing where his guitar was in
its construction at that time. A couple of months ago, though, I received a
strange email from him saying that he wanted his guitar and wondered if
I'd ever really started it for him. I immediately dropped him some photos
of the guitar in what was its current state of progress to offer some
assurance that it was indeed still here in my shop and waiting for me to
get back to it. He talked about cancelling the order and even possibly
smearing me at all of the forums.

    This was before I wa actually able to perform many of the operations in
my shop again so i let him know that his guitar would have my attention
until completed and delivered. I worked on it as diligently as possible as I
continued to recover and kept him informed of the progress as I did. An
email letting him know a pojected completion date about 30 days out was
sent to him.

    Again, an email informed him that it would be done at about 3 weeks
out, 2 weeks out, 7 days out and finally the day that it was ready to go to
him. He seemed excited to receive it and I was relieved to have it ready fr
him since he was so anxious to get it those couple of months ago.

    Finally, here's the situation I find myself in. He has refused to send his
balance and is playing the "check's in the mail" game. He assured me that
he would rop his balance to me two weeks ago and then last week again
and, today, let me know that he found his check that he was sure had
been sent to me.

   Normally, I let customers know when their guitars are a few months out
so they are able to arrange their funds to take delivery when they're ready
for delivery. I have a backlog of 3 1/2 years under normal conditions and
my injury layoff deepened that by some time, but changes to my shop
and operation are really helping in my being able to shorten that
considerably. Nonetheless, everyone is always aware of where their
guitars are in construction.

   How would you all handle this situation? I put about 70+ hours on this
guitar since his request for priority treatment in order to accommodate
him and now am sitting on those 70+ hours without compensation...and
that's not somewhere I can be after a year of disability exhausting every
resource that I had.

Thanks,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Kevin this is not going to get better. Your dealing with an immature personality that has decided in it's mind that you are the problem, and that you are playing games with him. He is now most likely justifying his negative behavior by doing these foolish things. Most likely he is saying to himself "he made me wait- I'll make him wait"

Honestly I would sell it separately on your website. If he want to buy it later then hey it's finished. If not refund the deposit money and keep the guitar. You'll make it back, it just may take some time. I would even add an inlay to it to make it all the more special, and different from his original order.
As far as smear tactics goes your name is solid in this industry and thankfully for the internet everyone knows what you have been through. It would be hard to smear when the truth is already out there. If this happened over and over again sure- but not just once.
No matter what his deposit was refunding it is most likely priceless compared to what this guy is going to try to do to your head.

Hope this helps. Craig L

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com

Kevin...sounds like a real bummer of a situation. There's really not much you can do now except sit on the guitar and await his check...and also wait till it clears!!!

One suggestion I would have is to call him and use the spoken word to help to speed up the process. Sometimes we think that emails are a substitute for proper customer interaction. Speaking with him directly will certainly impress upon him your desire to honor the contract...at the same time, you will get a better idea of the probability of this reaching a positive conclusion.

Finally, I would give him a deadline by which you must receive payment...after that date, offer it for sale to someone else who might have been waiting a long time for a Gallagher Guitar.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I agree with JJ that speaking directly to a client can make all the difference. I've had a couple of times where things have gotten a bit tense because of miscommunications. In those cases, I've simply picked up the phone and cleared things up. It's usually quite easy.
I would set a date that you are comfortable with and tell said client that he has until that date to have funds in your hands or it will be sold elsewhere.
At that point, he might try to flame you on the forums. But if you respond to what he says, you'll likely look more like a hero than a bad guy. Explain how you rushed the job when you had no business even being in the shop. And that he simply didn't pay for the guitar. How can you possibly look bad under those circumstances. Besides, if this guy tells his "friends" how bad of a person you are, it will likely be a blessing. Especially if they are anything like he is.
Good luck. Paul

Craig an JJ,

    Thanks for the input. I do have in my commissio agreement a
requirement that payment be made within ten days of completion of a
guitar.

    With repeated notices and updates letting customers know when a
guitar is approaching completion....and the fact that they entered a
commission at an agreed price in the beginning, there is always plenty of
time to slide things around to meet balance requirements.

    I'll give him a call to remind him of that ten day request. I believe it is a
little bit of a revenge game, but he was fine with my injury layoff and the
orignal projected delivery date.

   It may hit the internet as a guitar that is immediately available in the
next week depending on how things go with him. Until I'm back at work
long enought to build my resources back to where they were, i may be
forced to actually observe my own payment policies.

    There are a few people who would grab this guitar at a broad premium
above the original price so that's not an issue.

Thanks again,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

    Your post showed up as i was typing my reply to Craig and JJ. I'll give hm
a call today to see where things stand and to let him know where they need
to go.

    I'm sure it will loosen things up a bit. I had spoken with him several times
during the final two weeks of the guitar's build and set up to allow him
opportunity to change tuner choice, nut/saddle material, string brand/guage
and things like that, but he always indicated that he was excited about the
guitar coming to join his other Omega.....never any sign that this was
coming.

Thanks,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Kevin, I agree with JJ here, I would not do anything to worsen what appears to be a strained relationship. I would give him some space, allow him the time (if you can) to square up.
A phone call would be a great way personalize this situation. Call him and hear him out, maybe it will turn in to a light hearted conversation and you will both feel better about the entire process.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Kevin,

There are times in our lives that events occur and often they are out of our control. Certainly you explained this to the customer when your mishap happened. Certainly he realized you weren't just making excuses...He decided, when given the opportunity,  not to opt for the refund that was being offered at the time. Legally, once he rejects your offer the offer is considered rejected and is therefore null and void. He can't take you up on it at a latter time. You then informed him of the projected completion date(s) and kept your promise to deliver. If he is now unable/unwilling to pay you (and therefore p/u the guitar) you have several options :

1) recognize the breach of contract on his part ( failure to pay as agreed) and remedy the situation as per your build contract or

2) give him back a portion of his deposit ( if he is so entitled) less a damages/re-sell fee and  ONLY after re-selling the guitar to a new customer. Perhaps also reducing the refund by any loss on sale/profit.

3) give him back all his money and waive good by.

 I would NEVER go with option # three.

Most definitely, you need to speak to him first  and then offer a solution that suits YOU the best. You can't know why the "check that is in the mail" hasn't been sent until you confront him dead on about the issue. He needs to pay you. Any extension he agreed to was an extension for you to complete the project not for him to extend payment terms (or create new ones). Explain to him You are in business to make a profit and since you have now completed your end of the bargain he needs to pay you the balance. I would not worry about your execellent reputation as I am sure you have many a person who will attest to the quality of your work and your integrity. Someone who is just starting out may not want some one "bad" mouthing them, but I really don't think/feel this is a concern for you.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

My question is, do you offer a warranty with your guitars?

If this customer pays up and buys the guyitar, will that be the last you'll hear from him?

    Thanks for your prompt input and suggestions. You would think that I
would have experience every possible situation that could arise between a
builder and customer with almost 500 guitars under my belt.

   This was just a new one for me and with my the time of my injury layoff
being thrown into the transaction equation, it was even a little more
strange.

   It ends up that he is eager to receive the guitar and understands my
situation and called to get my info for a wire transfer of the funds to
eliminate the mail time. We've always had great times talking and
discussing things about life, home and guitars so this just threw me into
what ended up being an unnecessary panic.

    I guess wondering of you're going to still have the house...and if there
will be electricity in it if you do can throw you into some odd thought
proceses. I expected no less than the level headed and considerate
suggestions that you all offered.

Thanks again,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Glad it is working itself out on the sale, Kevin.

More importantly, it's nice to have some trust and support of a long-time customer/friend somewhat restored and confirmed.

Nonetheless...the threatening bit about him "smearing you on the forums" should not be forgotten. Going forward, I'd recommend something that one of my favorite historical figures used to say..."Trust but verify".

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Hey Kevin

I'm glad it's going to work out. My brother in-law was a bank manager
and now does something called "business incubation." I was going to
give him a call to get his advice. He's advocates friendly conversation in
every situation, and has great ways to phrase things (he's like a walking
How to Say It book). I'm glad it's working out now!

It's human to worry about public criticism, but your reputation goes in
front of you. I wouldn't worry about that. In fact, knowing your other
vocation, I might even recognize that sudden flips of personality come
from crisis. If you're willing, it might be interesting to ask questions that
might indicate some loss of any shalom he may have had and move from
there in any way you think reasonable.

Kevin,
In my Luthier's thoughts and in my deposit requirement statements on my web site I explain why I have a deposit requirement. One of those reasons stated was that I need ed to know the client was as committed to the project as I must be.

Well my sight was up about a week and I got a call from a prospective clinet. They were totally confussed as to why they needed to be committed to project, when I was the one building it.

I've had a couple hundred business transactions, and vividly remember the few that I thouht were oing badly. None ever did, just slowly. Panic sets in. I was oing to sugest a little fasting and prayer. Sounded like the ball was in your court. I'm glad thins worked out!

I recall a post on another forum warning members to beware of a business. I read through what was said and it quickly became clear to me the person posting was using the forum to apply pressure. They posted a few days later that the business had given them what they wanted. I did a little research, and this individual was clearly in the wrong and had clearly violated the companies return policies. I felt bad that the company actually had to cave in. When I posted a request that the person clear the air after slandering the company, and make it clear that the company was in the right however still went against their written policy to make him happy. I recieved a personal message from the individual instead of a responce in the topic. This person had no problem telling me they used the forum to pressure the company, they were in the wrong, but they figured that forums are tools that we should use if it gets us what we want.

I can't tell you how mad I was . I sent a message to the forums owner, but never got a responce. I am happy to hear that the courts are starting to look at this. It is a real problem and needs stiff penalties for those who would harm others with total disregard for their business.

Sorry for the rant , it just really struck a note with me.

Rich

    I agree that it's about time that the law catches up to technology. A
burglar can break into your home and steal your computer and all of the
periphals that can constitute a felony level theft, but if they hack into your
computer and infect it to a point where it is destroyed or will cost a good
deal to repair, there's not been a fitting penalty for it.

   It's much more difficult to catch the culprits on the internet, but that's
changing too as time goes by.

   My guy here called me back today and told me that he decied to do a
wire transfer instead of a check so he asked that I refuse his check when
ot comes. The problem is that the transfer has been completed as of 2 PM
today, but it's no showing up on my end yet. I know that banks play their
silly games by not crediting accounts immediately and all, so it's a matter
of watching for it to show up in my account now.

   If it wasn't for my year off, this wouldn't be an issue for me, but there is
no time on my part. Unfortunately, when I work now, I really need to be
paid until I get back on top of things financially again.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

P.S. --Terry,
   We've already done that since it's always our first course of action.
   Thanks.

    My customer emailed and called to let me know that he had completed
a wire transfer to my account according to the information that I'd sent
him yesterday. He saud that it went through before the end of business
yesterday and that the money was taken out of his account and was no
longer there.

    The amazing thing is that it never showed up on my end. I've taken
payment from Japanese, European and South American customers for
more than a hundred guitars by wire transfer over the years and they
usually show up by the end of the business day that they are executed on,
but have shown up after midnight if any automated dated processing
systems are in affect.

    This one is a "no show" so I've resent to original information after
double checking the first email containing it to find that it was correct
and accurate.

    Hopefully, this mystery will unfold today as I'm in contact with the bank
on my end and we track down this guy's funds.

Interesting and strangely coincidental,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
   

Hesh,
    I've done loads of direct transfers, both domestic and overseas. I've
had a few take a day or so. Even from far eastern European countries and
more recently from Malaysia hey showed up the following morning.

   TV and the movies can be a little deceiving wit thei instant transfer, I
know, but the typical or so is the norm for us so far.

   It does depend alot on the points of origin and destination and their
policies in handling transferred funds. My experience with my particular
bank has been that they handle them as they come in while many wait
until the end of business that day to do so.

   We'll see what happens today.

Thanks,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Any wire transfers to/from my bank account between different bank accounts will often take 2-3 working days.

Kevin, I hope this issue will be resolved soon.

Kevin,

Banks are different with their posting policies. It also depends on their clearing house and which of the major world banks they deal with. At my bank, a local Florida bank, I know when my wife deposits her pay check...can almost see her doing it! On the other hand I have an account at RBC that takes days to post a deposit of cash delivered to their desk.

One thing to remember...if he sent the wire transfer...the sending bank gave him a receipt for the transfer...he can easily fax you a copy. Also, you can call your bank and tell them that you are waiting for a wire transfer that hasn't posted to your account many times they can find it if it is in their system and simply haven't posted it to your account.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

   I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm just a little anxious to not only get his guitar to
him, but also to be able to get a long list of supplies that I need for my
upcoming guitars.

    Before I left for my trip and unexpectedly got injured, I had
intentionally allowed alot of my stock on things run low with a plan of
replenishing it all as soon as I returned. Once I came home and was
unable to work for a year, I forgot just how low on everything I was.

   I'm looking forward to being able to restock alot of what I would
normally have shelves full of. I'm sure you'll see me posting some
requests for fresh sources for some of the items like purflings and other
things.

I'll be heading down to McFadden's in Philly on Monday to pick up what
will be the better part of a year's worth of finish and related supplies and
then up to New England to flip through a few hundred Adirondack tops to
start building my supply back up.

   My wife tends to stress out a little more over finances and these kinds
of things than I do. It's been a tough year for her an the kids and I was
really just tryng to avoid having to tell her about another delay and hold
up for us. I'm the typical guy who could easily live in a van down by the
river.

   I'll wait it out and am sure all will be fine.

Thanks,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Kevin, I'm sure you're a few steps ahead of my thinking, but I can imagine
asking his establishment to show a proof of transfer?