Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm looking for feedback on an idea I have, and who better to run it past than all of you? Here's what I'm thinking.

Many of you know I left the computer industry to try and get more time to pursue my interest in lutherie, and well, now the cabinet making job I have seems to be eating up more and more of my time. If I'm going to work my butt off at something, I'd like to work at something I really enjoy, like building jigs and fixtures.

Here's my idea. A luthier at the ASIA symposium sort of half kiddingly mentioned that I should build and sell the jig he created as he has no time or interest in doing so. I've been thinking about this more, and there are many of you who have developed creative and extremely useful jigs that would benefit a multitude of luthiers. From a buyers perspective, what I have heard from most is that if a jig is priced right, they would much rather buy it than take the time to figure out how to make it themselves. From a builders perspective, those of you who are fortunate enough to earn money building and selling your guitars, you can't possibly take the time to start manufacturing your jigs for people interested in them. And, since very few luthiers are really making a significant amount of money, why not find a way to satisfy both parties?

I guess what it comes down to is that I'd like to create my own mini version of Stew Mac or LMI, but build and sell jigs and fixtures that are not mass produced and high priced, and to kick back some of the profits to those gifted creators. What I want to know is do you feel there is such a gap, or need...would this help you as a luthier from either perspective (the selling creator or the jig needing builder)?

Craig,
You are correct! There are many builders who hate creating jigs, including myself! Like you, I thought there was this need out there and that is why I created Luthiersuppliers.com. The same concept as you, except I don't want to be like LMI or Stew-mac, I want to offer jigs that you can't find anywhere else, or the one of a kind type things. If you can do that and make a living at it, the more power to you. Just don't steal my ideas (just kidding).

I think there is a huge market for what you are thinking of doing and wish you best. I for one would love to see some of the jigs you have in mind. Speaking of that, what jigs do you have in mind? Look forward to seeing what you have to offer.
Tracy

Craig,
I think it's a great idea! I'm always willing to seperate with my money for something thats time saving and a good value for the buck.

Ed.

Hey Craig... when is that slotting machine going to be ready?

:-)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Craig, I sure hope you're right. As a newbie to Luthery that will allow me to jump start my guitar making by buying jigs already proven and tested by experience makers, rather than stuggling to develop, redevelop and fix my own feeble efforts. I hate to make jigs and fixtures.

I think it's a great idea.

Hi Craig
       You never know what will happen till you try. Maybe you can buy Blues Creek when I retire
john hall

Craig, I can tell you I want your radius jig.
I also wanted to order a end graft jig from one of the other guys before they became un-obtainable.

Go man, Go... I for one, look forward to doing buisness with you.

Matt

p.s. I would like to see a better version of a neck join cutting jig. one that can adjust the back set with out shims, maybe thumb wheel screws.
it should have it own clamp downs for holding the neck and be easily converted to cut M&T, or dovetail. The templates should not be flexible like some of the plexiglass ones.

Craig,
I think it is a great idea to build some jigs. I think that people will buy them. I have the problem of having more money than time. (I have a full time day job.)
Some jigs I would like to see.
1. Don Williams binding jig.
2. John Hows bridge/string hole jig.
3. Keith MacKenzie's inlay routing jig.
4. Bob Cefalu's brace making jig.
5. Mark Kett's end graft jig.

[QUOTE=Matt Gage]p.s. I would like to see a better version of a neck join cutting jig. one that can adjust the back set with out shims, maybe thumb wheel screws.
it should have it own clamp downs for holding the neck and be easily converted to cut M&T, or dovetail. The templates should not be flexible like some of the plexiglass ones.[/QUOTE]

Have you seen that Jig that Paul Woolson posted pics of a few weeks back. That will do everything you mentioned. It is awesome. It is a modification of a Charles Fox design. Very slick.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I would like a jig that is adjustable and cuts slots for the nut AFTER the guitar is finished. I have built a couple but I am not really satisfied with mine, yet... I typically tape off the nut area but finish all seems to migrate beneath the tape and off of the headstock overlay. I have tried to clean this area up with scrapers & files but if you aren't careful you can quickly lose a nice flat surface.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Craig

Go for it. If I can afford to buy the jigs I do. It often saves a lot of time trying to figure out how to make them. I'm glad there are a few of you guys who are in the jig business around here. It is making our lives a lot easier.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I was the one who casually mentioned having Craig build my jig. I would be happy to waive all future royalties in excahnge for one of Craig's fine fretboard radiusing jigs.... Nice jig, simple, well thought-out. Seriously!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Craig,
Good luck on your venture. Frankly, I'm skeptical that your business model has a large enough market. I doubt that there are more than 2000 amateur or professional guitar builders out there. Most of those who are making a living at this have consumable items as a major part of their catalog. You have a nice fretboard radiusing jig and a good prototype of a fret slotting jig. You should offer fretboard services. That way I, or other builders, can be your customer over and over again. You might consider taking your duplicator and making pyrimid bridges or duplicating the customers prototype bridge as a service.

You might consider making a kerffed lining machine. And then sell the lining. Getting $2 for a 30" stick of wood is a better deal for both you and the buyer.

I agree with Mike. Come at the market from a tangent, not as a nose to nose competitor with the market.

another idea for a product... tuner buttons out of any kind of wood desired (perhaps even customer supplied wood).

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Craig,
Wonderful Idea! Some things to consider...
1) Cost
2) Size/weight/foot print
3) Longevity - will the tool last
4) does it really save time
5) does it do the job as well or better than current systems.

I think that most of us who have other "jobs" buy jigs because we don't have the time to make them. The full time builders usually have made there own jigs in the past and unless yours is really cost effective...they probably will build/replace their worn out jig with another of their own. So I guess the target market, while being all Luthiers, is more or less the folks who want to get to building. They are the ones who have to chose do I spend the money( buy it) or do I spend the time (build it). I do a little of both. However, some jigs that are well made ( usually the machined aluminum jobs) seem to be well worth the money as the appear to be "life time" tools. Another consideration is weight and foot print. I love your radius jig, BUT... it is a little heavy and has a fairly large foot print. That could be alleviated if it were made out of a different material. Just something to consider. Some guys with really small shops just wouldn't have the room to store a bunch of large jigs. Also remember that if you are going to incorporate other manufacturers tools into your jig that certain manufacturers and their tools come with a pre-conceived reputation...some good...some bad...some just limited. So adding on another's tool may actually detract from it's sale-ability because it comes with it's own reputation ( whether deserved or not). The opposite could also be true. A tool with a great rep might help sell the jig.

So I guess the deal is to be able to build a better jig at a cheaper price that lasts longer. Remember warrantee work has bancrupted many a manufacturer. That is a cost you really want to keep down by offering quality up-front.

The only other major cost - marketing. I think that's one of stewmac's and lmi's big costs. It costs alot to put a catalogue together, up date it, support inquiries, and mail it.

With all that said I still think if your heart is into it then GO for it! "Nothing ventured...nothing gained"!
Good Luck!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Don Williams] I was the one who casually mentioned having Craig build my jig. I would be happy to waive all future royalties in excahnge for one of Craig's fine fretboard radiusing jigs.... Nice jig, simple, well thought-out. Seriously![/QUOTE]

Well maybe or maybe not! I mentioned it quite some time ago when I bought one! But I would be willing in the sense of fairness to share some of my royalties with you Don.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Hey...I think I've been bamboozled!

                    

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Hey DON! It was really geat meeting you at the symposium. I wish I had gotten a chance to hang out but as you could see my mobility was a little hampered. Maybe next time O.K.?!!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Regarding the footprint ... I understand where Dave is coming from, but sometimes size and stability is worth it. A great tool (IMO) far outweighs a mere "good" tool.

I have one of these radius machines and I say don't change a thing. I don't think you will find another jig that will do a compound radius that is smaller (at least I haven't seen one.)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Hey DON! It was really geat meeting you at the symposium. I wish I had gotten a chance to hang out but as you could see my mobility was a little hampered. Maybe next time O.K.?!! [/QUOTE]

You know it! I can't wait for the next ASIA. I hear rumors that it may be moved to Kansas City or St Louis next time. That would force me to take a plane. YUCH. I'd rather drive anyday. I sure hope those knees of yours get better soon!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Man, I hope it gets moved to K.C or St. Louis! Then I could easily drive to it.

I had to sit at home and read all the posts from all you guys having so much fun up there. Bummer!

I'd like to meet everyone and it would be great to do it all in one place. I'll keep my finger crossed that they do in fact move it, even if it is only a one-shot deal.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Its a good idea. But my question would be, how can you make such specialized items in limited quantities and keep the price down all while still making a profit? If you figure that one out let me know!

Oh yeah, put me down for one of each because I would rather buy them than make them.

Two words...

Low Overhead.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

   I started with with a few old jigs that I improved and now I have alot of work to keep up with my demand. A good jig is a value in that it saves time for the builder and gives good repeatable results.
    Between my custom jigs for luthiers and what I make and sell there is allways a market for something
john hall

John, did you get my PM about the cutaway shoe design for you bending jig?

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.