Official Luthiers Forum!

Is the Somogyi voicing video available thru the OLF or is this available thru his website.
                        James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

James-
The videos available here (for a while) were pretty general- definitely not any sort of 'magic bullet'. They were basically a teaser for the courses that Mr Somogyi teaches.

I understand that you have to lay out a pile of cash and swear secrecy before you get the magic mojo.

Cheers
John

Mojo my rump.I`m pretty sure he puts his pants on one leg at a time as do the rest of us.
                   James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

[QUOTE=James W B] Mojo my rump.I`m pretty sure he puts his pants on one leg at a time as do the rest of us.
                      James [/QUOTE]

Ah, James, James. You only say that because you don't belong to the Somogyi Secret Handshake Society. Those folks know better.

John

   Yeah, Ervin does put his pants on one leg at a time...the differnce is
that he pulls them onto legs that carry the brain, ears and hands of a
man who has spent decaeds voicing tops and mastering that process.

   Ervin is the man when it comes to voicing...and communicating what
he's learned to his students. You can put out the fee for his class or save
it in exchange for spending 25 years getting to where he is. Most never
achieve the level of understanding and intuition that he has...even after
all of those years.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I understand what your saying Kevin,since I myself have worked with wood for over thirty years.Who`s got the feelin` to keep him alive?though having it and sharing it ain`t quite the same.He still gots to get those pants on.    
                        James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

I appreciate what you said Kevin....yeah, the Somogyi course easily took 20 years off of my learning curve! Hey, I just strung up a guitar this afternoon, my 2nd post Somogyi, and let me tell you I haven't played many better...I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn from one of the masters.

Greg

_________________
Gwaltney Guitars

Well ya know John ,I`m not much of a joiner.I pretty much depend on myself.It`s worked my entire life.
                James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

I have a hard time understanding how learning from a video would keep you from being a joiner...obviously said video was removed from 'circulation' as it is for all intensive purposes 'pirated'...

the fact that he even has a class (which I'm sure costs an arm and a leg) is a far better thing than letting his knowledge go to the grave with him!

Mike and Kevin,you misunderstand me.I`m sure Ervin`s guitars sound incredible, and his knowledge is worth it`s weight in gold.But if you put his guitars in a blind listening test with 10 other great builders on this forum , would we really know which guitar was his ,and would it sound that much better?
               James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

[QUOTE=MikeP] I have a hard time understanding how learning from a video would keep you from being a joiner...obviously said video was removed from 'circulation' as it is for all intensive purposes 'pirated'...[/QUOTE]

No. That isn't the problem.

Lance shot that video. It isn't pirated. When the video was shot there were various intrepretations on what was going to be done with it, and that never got appropriately sorted out.

There aren't any hard feelings over it, but we never did iron out all the details between us, ASIA and Ervin. Once the videos were up discussions ensued about what would be the "best" use of the video... and frankly we never got around to sorting through it.

No drama involved... let's not create any where there is none.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

O.K. put up your dukes...put em I said...come on...putt em up...ruuuufff...

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] James-
The videos available here (for a while) were pretty general- definitely not any sort of 'magic bullet'. They were basically a teaser for the courses that Mr Somogyi teaches.

I understand that you have to lay out a pile of cash and swear secrecy before you get the magic mojo.

Cheers
John
[/QUOTE]


Hmmm... Well, you can poke fun at him if you like, but I find it extremely rude. Ervin has done a lot to further our craft and this is uncalled for.

I would happily pay the fee to go to the class again. Having access to his experience, brain, and ideas were worth more than I could describe.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] James-
The videos available here (for a while) were pretty general- definitely not any sort of 'magic bullet'. They were basically a teaser for the courses that Mr Somogyi teaches.

I understand that you have to lay out a pile of cash and swear secrecy before you get the magic mojo.

Cheers
John
[/QUOTE]


Hmmm... Well, you can poke fun at him if you like, but I find it extremely rude. Ervin has done a lot to further our craft and this is uncalled for.

I would happily pay the fee to go to the class again. Having access to his experience, brain, and ideas were worth more than I could describe.

[/QUOTE]

Me Too...It changed the way I build. Even with all the notes, pictures, conversations and mental ingraining...I still need to do it again...There was just so much good info...Ervin's my buddy...you mess with him you be messin with me...

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

    The videos are not for teachng purposes, but to promote his classes.
Voicing and the very subtle things that happen as minute amounts of
material during it are impossible to hear when you're not right there and
able to actually be in contact with the top being worked.

    
James W B,

    Working with wood for 30+ years, by no means qualifies anyone as
being able to "read" a guitar top before and during the voicing process.    
My grandfather owned a huge shop which was split in half with a large
steel machine shop at one end and a large wood/cabinet shop at the
other. I was in it all of the time and was a skilled woodworker in my pre-
teen years. I went on to do work in both ends of his shop and earning my
journeymans card as a toolmaker in the steel shop. I had "the feel", but
for furniture and cabinets....not guitars.

   All that experience never did a thing for my ability to sense what was
needed to coax a guitar top as close to its vibrational potential as
possible. It wasn't until I began building that I began to understand
resonances that are unique to guitars. It never really mattered what kind
of sustain or tone a table or cabinet that I'd built had.

   Working with wood and working with wood that will become guitars are
certainly two different things. One huge benefit of general woodworking
experience in lutherie is the machine operating and set up skills that you
gain and carry over. They can really save you alot of time and headaches
when you switch over to guitars from cabinets or fine furniture.

   Ervin has worked longer on guitars longer and with more intensity and
observation than most of us have worked on anything. He is one of the
masters of voicing tops and getting his desired results from his efforts.
There's not many who can do the work as well as him and even fewer who
can convey that knowledge to others as well.

   Each guitar presents a new class....and that's for every builder...or
should be. It was good to see that you really wanted to learn from his
experience since were seeking the videos of his class, though. I hope you
find them somewhere.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars


   

James W B,

    I didn't get to see your question regarding Ervin's guitars in a blind test
with those of other builders.

    If his guitars were played next to those from experienced builders who
have been building for some time and have a good number instruments
under their belts....maybe not, but next to guitars from builders with less
experience and less guitars to their credit...I'd lean toward absolutely.

   That's why guys are lining up to take Ervin's classes. He not only
achieves great tone while directing each instrument toward the tonal and
dynamic desires of each customer that he's building for, but he's
generously and graciously offering the many years of research and
experience to others to further the craft and to save them years of
difficult and expensive trial error efforts of their own.

    We pay for our education in every other field....I know my degree cost
me in excess of $100k and I never complained about gleaning all of the
knwledge from my teachers. Ervin's class is very reasonable as he offers
so much.

Sorry I missed you question before I'd posted,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Hmmm... Well, you can poke fun at him if you like, but I find it extremely rude. Ervin has done a lot to further our craft and this is uncalled for.

I would happily pay the fee to go to the class again. Having access to his experience, brain, and ideas were worth more than I could describe.

[/QUOTE]
Brock-
I wasn't poking fun at Ervin. His guitars have an excellent reputation and he is regarded as a master luthier. I assume that he is entirely self-taught (ie never was freely given any knowledge by any other builder), so he has a right to charge whatever he wants for his secrets.

I was poking fun at the acolytes who have paid to take his courses and have bought into the 'secret' nature of the whole enterprise. It certainly is very 'old school' (17th century: secret techniques passed down within a workshop) mixed with 21st century capitalism.

Anyway, I'll let this one die for now....

John

All I can say is I`m gonna go watch the don`t take the World Serious.
                      James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Ervin's acoustic listening session at the 2006 G.A.L. convention was far from some secret info exchange? He discussed his methods at great length to the point of the session lasting about three times as long as planned. He put his guitar up with about 50-60 other makers. There were roughly one hundred folks in attendance. Each guitar was made  anonymous with a paper cover on the headstock. We listened to the guitars inside and outside. They were grouped and graded. It came down to two groups of six. The six guitars we liked most, and six we liked least. I personally got a very good basic understanding of of his approach. He an was outstanding orator and seemed to have a gift for teaching. It made me want to learn more from him. Long story short; his guitar anonymously made the top six best - on ears alone.

_________________
Tom Krebs

If I had the opportunity to take Ervins class again... I would in a
heartbeat!!!!!! I am sure I would learn a ton more the 2nd time around. As
far as blind test, we did exactly that in his class. All of our guitars and one
of his. Probably about a dozen guitars. I liked 3 guitars the best.
One was his, and one was Greg G's from our group. All of my favorites were
actually dreads to my surprise.

The key about Ervins teaching is that you may not actually like the sound of
his guitars (unlikely)   He teaches a way to look at voicing that allow you to
get more predictable and repeatable results. He can use his teachings to
create the voice you want!!!!! Not necessarily his voice

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

[quote=Brock Poling]No drama involved... let's not create any where there is none. [/quote]

     You took the Somogyi course? Doesn't that mean you're in the Secret Handshake Society? Funny you would say something like that! How can we trust YOU ???

CONSPIRACY!! CONSPIRACY!!


I'm Joking!!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] I was poking fun at the acolytes who have paid to take his courses and have bought into the 'secret' nature of the whole enterprise. John
[/QUOTE]

Fair enough John, but it is frustrating to continually hear about this "tight lipped" brotherhood of secrecy. It really isn't the case. This isn't skull & bones or anything like that. The class is just simply so overwhelming, and Ervin is such a great instructor that we CAN'T explain in a way that will do the material justice.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Hmmm Billy, still sounds like skull and bones stuff to me dude nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Only pulling ya leg Brock

You guys leave Evin alone, one day I am going to organise a syndicate to nap him and bring him to AU. We won't let him go until he does a 3 month long "building an axe with Ervin" course with each one of us

Why we will probably claim him as our own and make him an honorary Ausssie like we do when anyone with talent visits. Guess that's why you got WW back quick as a flash after his recent visit, where pretty choosy about who gets to stay you know

Cheers

Kim

But if you put his guitars in a blind listening test with 10 other great builders on this forum , would we really know which guitar was his ,and would it sound that much better?

Depends on the test.  In my experience of hearing a few, in a large room at 30 feet away, his guitar sounded fine but not in a class by itself.  But close up, the ones I've heard are unmistakable.

I first heard one of his guitars about 10-12 years ago.  That sound instantly became a benchmark for me.  I tried a lot of things in the last 10 years to get my guitars to sound more like his.  I took the class in January and I sure wish I'd taken it 10 years ago.

_________________
http://www.chassonguitars.com