Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello, My name is John Hunter. I'm a new member that has been lurking in the shadows listening in so to speak. I've been dulling saw blades and chisels as a hobby for about twenty years and playing guitar for the last three. Those two interests have merged lanes; so here I am.

I probably won't be posting alot right away, but would like to throw something out there about the use of non-traditional woods. I've read enough of the archives to know that many of you have used local woods with stunning results. A friend of mine gave me some nice  white oak 2"x12"'s that were floor boards in a seventy year old corn crib and some nice quartered douglas fir that were rafters in a town hall that was about a hundred years old.

My plan is to use the fir for the top, the oak for the back and sides. I dropped it off at a local cabinet shop to be re-sawed and thicknessed just today. Any advice regarding what to do with it from there would be appreciated. Also is oak a reasonable choice for a neck or is it too heavy?  Are there any good native woods for the fret board and bridge?

Don't want to be too long winded so I'll stop here . Thanks in advance for any help with these questions.  

Welcome J.R to the best guitar forum around.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

Welcome to the forum, John. I'm finishing up one now out of curly white oak with mahogany neck. I don't know about oak for the neck, but I have read that it is too heavy.

Lutherie Woods, put out by GAL, says that dogwood is actually harder than ebony (or, at least, wears better than ebony) for a FB, and can be dyed jet black.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Let me add that I too am planing a guitar with white oak back and sides including the neck but with a redwood top. I don't think the oak is to heavy. i too am looking for a good local alternative for the bridge and fingerboard.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

I just finished an oak guitar. Oak is a nice tone wood.
I have used it for necks when I make laminated necks. Here are a few pictures for you.

Oak back.


Oak and manzanita segmented rosette.



Oak strips with mahogany and walnut.



Here is oak backing with maple and manzanita strips.


Here is manzanita on the headplate

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

There are some nice examples of fumed quartered white oak guitars from the Chicago companies like Regal; they were made in the early 20th century, and were finished much like Mission and Craftsman furniture...ammonia fumed and varnished.

welcome to the forum!

If you havent already discovered it, there are many domestic woods that make good neck materials. Cherry is up there on top of the list along with maple and Ash. If you are looking for domestic fretboards and bridge materials, look at some of the nut woods such as walnut, chestnut, or some of the fruit woods like persimmon or applewood.

 

There is no reason that a completely domestic guitar cant be built.

Share some pictures when you have a chance?

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Reguards,

Ken H

J.R. - Welcome to the forum!

I fully support your efforts to use reclaimed materials for your guitar... I do a lot of that myself.

One thing you may consider though (if this will be you first), is to build that first guitar from materials with less pedigree. If you have access to plenty of this reclaimed wood, then it isn't as big a deal. But... I think a lot of the builders here would agree that the first guitar is a good place to make mistakes, ruin materials, solve problems, and really use that first guitar as "rehearsal" for when we become more confident in using higher quality materials.

Either way... good luck and take lots o' pictures!

long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

Thanks guys, for your quick responses! It's nice to know I'm not going into this blindly. It's also nice to know I wasn't the only one with nothin' better to do on a friday night than being on the forum!

SteveS : Thanks for the pics. That oak cut away is one of the loveliest guitars I've ever seen. If I weren't already partial to light colored woods you would have made a beleiver out of me! Absolutely gorgeous! Must be a joy to play!

I forgot to mention that I'm planning a classical for my first go at it. I'm in the process of gathering materials, building jigs ( my favorite part of woodworking), and researching. I hope to start sometime around Christmas (Lord willing!)

Thanks again for all of your input guys. I'm looking forward to learning from all of you.

Oak may be a little heavy for a clasical where weight is impotant.
But as bob mentioned if you have a good supply of reclaimed or "wast" wood
then give it a go you may find you get interesting results.

Good luck with your prodject and be warned lutherie is an expensive habit.

Joel.

Welcome to the Forum, John.  There are more steel string builders here than classical, but some of us are more interested in classicals.  There sure is a lot to learn here, from all types of builders.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hi J.R. Welcome.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go ahead and use the oak for the back and sides, but I wouldn't use doug fir for the top, nor oak for the neck, esp on a classical. I'd want a nice, light neck on a classical. And I'd definitely use a tried and true top wood. The oak B&S are not likely to be any impediment to a great sounding guitar, but doug fir for the top, well... it MIGHT work if you do it just right, but I'd say you're stacking the deck against yourself.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Bob, not to worry. I have plenty of it and can get more if need be, but I do understand your point.

Todd, I have to admit I'm a little anxious about the fir myself. It is very straight grained though, otherwise I wouldn't have considered it. When the idea first struck me, I did a bit of digging, including on this forum and found plenty of precedent for it. (No, mom, I wouldn't jump off a bridge if everybody else did!)

When you say "doing it just right" I'm assuming you mean with regard to the bracing? I've come across so many variations of top bracing a classical but at this point I'm planning on following the one that Irving Sloane usesin his Classic Guitar Construction. Any pointers? 

What I mean is that I think you'd have to really know what you're doing and do EVERYTHING just right - or get very lucky - to have a classical guitar with a doug fir top come out sounding as good as what you'd get with a spruce or cedar top. There may well be precedent for using doug fir for a guitar top, but there are also very good reasons why most everybody does NOT use doug fir and why they use spruce or cedar - stiffness-to-mass ratio being the primary one. If I were you, I just wouldn't want to set myself up with such a disadvantage on a first guitar. I'd get a really nice european or lutz spruce top, or maybe western red cedar if you want to go that way (beware the softness of this wood, i.e. easy denting, which could cause you some frustration on a first effort), and give yourself the best chance of a really good sounding guitar.   

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

And getting "Making Master Guitars" by Roy Courtnall is a must!  In addition to having a ton of useful information, there are profiles of the major builders as well as plans for their instruments: Antonio Torres, Santos Hernandez, Hauser, Fleta, Bouchet, Hernandez and Aguado, Friedriech, and Romanillos.

I've read the Sloan book, its skimpy in many places.  The Courtnall book is very complete.  There is, of course, other information not in it, but that's what the forums are for!

The Oak should be fine. I'd second the opinion about spending a bit on a good soundboard, probably spruce.  Build this one as well as possible, as close to an established model as possible.  Use it as a "gold standard" against which you can compare any other efforts.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/