Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi All,
I just got my orphaned side sets from Bobc(zootman) and they are absolutely beautiful. Bob was kind enough to throw in a highly figured quilted sapele side. Since I'm building a guitar that will have a quilted sapele rosette, peghead veneer, and end wedge, I thought I could cut this side up and make bindings also. What is the best way to bend this quilted sapele for a venetian cutaway? I have a side bender with only one heating blanket. I tried bending some flamed koa and they snapped so easily. It seems that I will need to heat contact on the whole piece of binding or it will not work. Any suggestions?
Tracy

I always tape my bindings to the sides and bend them at the same time in the bender. It usually works very well. Maybe a few extra peices of tape near the cutaway but not too much as you have to clean it up.

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Tracy, I have never had any trouble bending Flamed Maple or Flamed Koa, Ebony on the other hand!

I tape 6 strips together, side by side, using the blue masking tape, leaving about 1" between each section of tape. Then I wipe both sides with a wet rag, wrap the min Aluminum foil, put them in the bender and bend as I normal would with a side. That is, crank it all the way up and start bending when I hear the water sizzle.
Ive really had no trouble to speak of with bending any bindings but ebony.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I found that if you are afraid the wood's runout is severe and you fear cracking , I lay wet kraft paper into the bender under the binding. This is a resevior for water to keep a good bit of steam in there. Take the heat to 300 F then bend the bindings This will do the job. I like to bend at least 4 pieces at a time taped together like a small side set.
john hall
blues creek guitars

Tracy,
I usually do as John mentioned, however, on occasion I forget or change my mind, and then have to bend them seperate from the sides. I do the exact same routine as when bending the sides... Spritz with water ( well), wrap carefully in Aluminum foil, get my bender real hot, place between two stainless steel sheets, slowly bend the waist ( not all the way yet), when I get the waist down to the last two inches or so I start bending the lower bout, then upper, ( not all the way on either), finish the waist bend, then finish the lower bout, then the upper. I have done this many times and only cracked one set of ebony so far. I think that was in the release part - removing it from the bender. I don't use a blanket only 3 bulbs.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Tracy,

I bend as most have already said, although I bend the bindings and purflings separate from the sides.   The 1st time I bent some curly eucalyptus bindings from Bob C. I broke all 4 at the waist. I bought 4 more and tried a 2nd time, but I taped them together, misted them with water, wrapped in aluminum foil, placed it between 2 metal slats with 1 heating blanket. I took the temp up to 290-310 and bent very, very slowly. It took me 7-10 minutes to get the waist caul firmly clamped, and then I did the lower bout and then the upper bout fairly quickly. They came out perfect!

So now I go super slow at the waist and only start after the temp has hit at least 280. It has worked on the curly eucalyptus, curly maple, and ebony.

Good luck.

Jeff

Is there a trick to bend ebony?
Andy

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Tracy, I bend mine the same way as several have already said. I tape them all together and bend it like a side.

So far I haven't broken any. I did "crispy critter" a set one time. Went off and forgot the heat blanket was on, left it for two days. It's a wonder I didn't burn the shop down.

I have since installed a timer and a rheostat on my blankets to aid with my poor memory in the future.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

[QUOTE=Dave Rector]
So far I haven't broken any. I did "crispy critter" a set one time. Went off and forgot the heat blanket was on, left it for two days. It's a wonder I didn't burn the shop down.
[/QUOTE]

Wow, Dave! Glad you're still with us....

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I first tried taping 4 of them together and bending with the heating blanket and spritzing them with water, but they all snapped at the waste before I even got to the cutaway part. So I didn't want to try 4 more. So I'll be doing one at a time until I get it down. I think the problem is that the heating blanket does not contact the bindings at all points, so the heat is not even. I think next I will try 2 metal slats on each side. If that doesn't work, then I'll need to get another blanket. Thanks all for the great suggestions!
Tracy

Well I bend just about the same as most everyone here has described. I use a few metal spring clamps to keep the metal slats, bindings and blanket all tight together. By accident I found that the light purple painters masking tape comes off much easier that the blue stuff and still does the job.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I've used Uri's services and can vouch that what "Honest Mike" said is absolutely true.

[QUOTE=highdrawlicks] the phrase "up to" includes the number 0.[/QUOTE]

Michael,
That's it, I'm taking my radius dishes back! Thanks for the tip Michael, but I'll save my money for more tried and true tips. Thanks all for the great tips!
Tracy

Tracy,
I do like many of the others and use foil. It keeps the steam in and allows you more time to bend. I do spray only on the side that the blanket or heat will be applied.

Tracy, your comment about the blanket not making contact alarmed me a bit. That's CRITICAL to a successful bend. Do you use the spring/aluminum slat at the waist? If not, I think you can test, test and re-test and never be very successful. Many people think that the slat isn't important and "how could it possibly give much support?" Support isn't the main factor, it keeps the blanket in contact at all times at the waist.
I don't want to claim to be an expert but as you probably know, I worked with/studied under Charles and I milked his brain for all it was worth regarding this jig. Trust me, he got it right and all the design elements are important.

I bought some ebony bindings from LMI, do you guys thin them at al or just bend them like has been described here? I have to bend for a venetian classical cutaway. In the past I have bent them over a wet wash cloth on a hot pipe but I'd like to do them in my fox bender.

Ed.

Paul,
You are correct, I will be trying this again with some spring steel using outside slats to sandwich the blanket and bindings. I will also let it get to 300 degrees before bending. I'll let you know if it works. Thanks again for all of the great advice!
Tracy

Thanks for all the great advice. I still chickened out on bending the high flamed koa that Bobc sold me, but instead ripped one of his high flamed quilted sapele into bindings and tried that. I used a sandwich of thin roof flashing, and the blanket. I taped 4 bindings together and put them under running water for about 30 secs. Then wrapped them lightly in foil. I then put a thin metal flashing down, then the bindings in the foil, then the heating blanket, then another metal flashing piece. I let it heat for about a minute, and when I heard the sizzling, I bent the waste down. Then the cutaway, very slow, then the lower bout. I had no breaks and it worked beautifully. I'm sold on the sandwich method. Here are some pics showing the sandwich, and then one showing after taking the bindings out of the sandwich. I'll let them sit here until they are needed in a few months.