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For those that glue their fretboards with epoxy, what kind of clamping pressure do you use - say compared to Tightbond? I should be able to try this tomorrow, so any other tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

Let me add my question. It seems to me that the squeeze out on the top could not be cleaned properly. How do you avoid that, or clean it up?

Good question Bill. My guess would be masking tape and clean up with DA before it hardens. I'm using a modified double mortise and tenon neck joint (all bolts), so nothing is glued to the body.

Epoxy doesn't require any pressure. You just need to hold it in position. You could use the same force you use with Titebond, it won't hurt anything, it just isn't needed. I clamp it enough to hold it in place and see a little squeeze out.
BTW- If you want an alternative to epoxy, try fish glue. I have found that the water effect isn't anything like Titebond, it acts more like epoxy.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Bob-
I've glued a lot of stuff with epoxy- not fingerboards yet-   and the general advice from the epoxy formulators (WEST, System 3) is to avoid high clamping pressure.
I use just enough pressure to get the excess out of there; I don't clamp as hard with epoxy as with Titebond-type glues.
A fingerboard attachment isn't a very severe test of adhesion, so it probably doesn't matter much, but 'straight' epoxies without thickeners are not very good adhesives.

WEST Epoxy User Manual
should answer most of your questions. The ideas there apply to most epoxies (not the stuff in 2 tubes from the hardware store, though), not just WEST products.

Wear gloves!

Cheers
John

[QUOTE=BobK]. I'm using a modified double mortise and tenon neck joint (all bolts), so nothing is glued to the body.[/QUOTE]

I’m curios, would you post a picture of your neck joint.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

To much clamping presure with epoxy and the joint can fail. I learned this years ago. On some failed wood working projects. Then I learned enough to read the manufactuers instructions.You just need enough pressure to hold it in place.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

I use wooden cam clamps. They provide plenty of pressure for this type of joint. Clean up with DA or mineral spirits. Try golf club shafting epoxy. It works great, is easily disassembled and much cheaper than West, T-88 or TAP.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks for the info guys.

Dave, the neck joint is based on the version that John Mayes uses. The only difference is that I mortise the second tenon into both the body and the neck blank for added strength. It also prevents the 14th fret hump. I think Paul Woolson does something similar.

Here are some pics of the one I'm working on now.

Thanks Bob, Very nice

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

I clamp the hell out of mine.... 7 large clamps. But then, I'm not using that wimpy WEST stuff, either <g>

If you tooth both surfaces, you can't overclamp.

And why concern with squeeze out on the top? The guitar's top? We're not using epoxy -there-! Otherwise, masking tape on the fretboard, right to the edge, and clamp it all, fretboard down. Cleanup involves simply cutting away the tape....

OK, I have never used epoxy on the fingerboard, so I am not familiar with the procedure. Do you use epoxy over the neck and regular glue over the body?

Yes.

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Doug Mills
Chicago, Illinois

Ow My eyes! My eyes!....

Sorry Mario, I did a cut and paste from Word.  What is the system font anyway?

[QUOTE=grumpy]Ow My eyes! My eyes!....
[/QUOTE]

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Doug Mills
Chicago, Illinois

Why use epoxy at all?  Lack of creep over time?



I just imagine trying to get an epoxied fretboard off in the event of a
buggered truss rod...but maybe this isn't as much of an issue with
acoustics as it seems to be with electrics.

Removing an epoxied fingerboard is no big deal. Heat it up with a hot iron; parting knife it off. It's no more difficult than taking off a fingerboard done with any other glue.   Actually, polyurethane is difficult, come to think of it.   

And do you really like using water based glue for the fingerboard joint? Or are you using polyurethane?

Going to epoxy has saved me a whole lot of neck problems.

All other adhesives contain some moisture, which often induces some backbow to the neck. Epoxy doesn't at all, so if yo clamp it flat, it will be flat.

reversing epoxy is a cinch, also. Many epoxies release at temperatures slightly lower than Titebond releases at. I've been bit by junk rods early in my career, and can attest to how well epoxy reverses itself. Never a sliver of wood.... I just use hardware store epoxy for this use, BTW. Plenty strong enough for this large surface, fast, yet releases readily. Costs little, also.

[QUOTE=grumpy] All other adhesives contain some moisture, which often induces some backbow to the neck.........[/QUOTE] I've heard that many times, but I have never experienced it. I believe it happens, but I am wondering how bad it is and how hard it is to fix?
It seems to me that it wouldn't be that bad, but I've been wrong before.......

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

There's no moisture in polyurethane glue unless you introduce it yourself to kick it faster.   

SteveS...pay attention to what the grumpy man says. Switching from water based adhesives to epoxy for fingerboard joints has cut any neck issues by a good 60% for me.   

The worst is gluing a fingerboard on with Titebond before you carve it.   Fuggedaboudit... Bad way to make necks. I should know as I did about 1,250 Alembic necks that way...

Yes, I like to listen to the voice of experience. OK - no more Titebond on fretboards. I'll consider myself lucky up to now.
What about using HHG or fish-glue? I know they are water based, but they don't seem to cause the same trouble that Titebond does. Perhaps th ere is less moisture.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] The worst is gluing a fingerboard on with Titebond before you carve it.   Fuggedaboudit... Bad way to make necks. I should know as I did about 1,250 Alembic necks that way...[/QUOTE]

Rick would you elaborate on this just a bit? Thanks.

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El Warpo...

You introduce water into the neck and fingerboard...first bad thing; then you carve away more than 1/3 of the mass of wood on the back of the neck thereby stress relieving that part of the neck.   So you've introduced stress on one side and relieved it on the other.   Bad way to do things. I don't care that classical builders do this all the time...they also spend a lot of time planing and sanding their fingerboards prior to fretting.   

The most stable necks are carved close to finished dimensions and then are allowed to settle. Then you've got a shot at truing up the fingerboard gluing surface and epoxying on a fingerboard without one part of the neck fighting another.

I've machine carved about 2,600 necks now on shapers and pin routers.   The most stable of these are the ones I shaped before gluing on the fingerboards...by far...

In fact, my most stable necks have been either ones loaded with carbon fiber or with very thin ( .075") fingerboards...the necks we put on the Renaissance series.   The fingerboard is bent to the radius machined into the gluing surface, and we cut all the way through the fingerboard with the fret slots.   These necks are astoundingly stable, even the ones without CF reinforcement.   The fingerboard is simply not fighting the neck.

Mario,
Are you talking about just a standard 5/10 minute 2-part epoxy that one would pick up at any hardware store and some grocery stores?
-j.

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-jack handy