Official Luthiers Forum!

Hesh hit the nail on the head when he said SOUND AND TONE.The other thing is you can have your dream guitar MADE ANY WAY THAT SUITS YOU.And besides ,who the heck wants to own a guitar when a zillion other folks have one just like it.If you`ve ever played a handmade guitar you would never ever again buy a predictably mediocre factory guitar.
                    James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

we lose sight of the over statement

Ah, me Lord, Yee Kingdom for the &^*%&g edit button...

"....the -above- statement" . Not the -over- statement

Kent, I suppose those labels were a little harsh and I do feel that there is a lot of value or perceived value in the intangibles of a custom guitar.

Having said that, I feel it is extremely important that luthiers actually offer an honestly superior product and be able to communicate why it is to the customer. I am a scientist by training and I tend to be a results oriented person, even if it something that is difficult to measure. Personaly as a builder I want to be measured by the quality of my work, my willingness to back it up and my customer service. To me these are the most important tangibles.

Your last sentence did concern me, however. Although in the real world there is truth to it, I would rather sell my guitars based on their merits, not on the basis of my political, religious or ideological persuasion, or even on the nature of my personal relationship with the customer.

_________________
Randy Muth
RS Muth Guitars Website
RS Muth Guitars Blog
Facebook Fan Page

When we're all dead, our guitars will only be bought and sold on the sonic, playability, and artistic merits. It won't matter whether we drove Hummers or rode bikes.     

[QUOTE=grumpy]Why? Because of pure, unadulterated passion.

And that's why I say they'll "get it" or not. To many people, the above just won't sink in, even after it's explained. And if we break down the why's and wherefor's to the nuts and bolts of it to make our point, we lose sight of the over statement.

[/QUOTE]

Dear Grumpy,

I might be a newbie...  I don't mind...  I hope to stay a newbie a long time...  And if I'm able to convince just a few guys of the why, or I can inspire them with some passion, or I can place a seed that will grow, fine with me. I did my job...

I do not sell luthier guitars.  I do not sell wood or equipment...

I'm in the business of organizing events... Events like the Montreal jazz fest in which nobody believed at first...  Or like the Montreal Guitar Show (a non for profit organization) of which a lot of people said I was crazy to get into...  But I sincerely believe in this...

And I also believe that some people are more analytic then others, and these need more straight forward arguments... Others are more of the dreamer kind... And they will need to see the passion...

And I'm happy to see that this thread gives me a lot of hard facts and a lot of all the other reasons why some people (not all...) should consider a luthier guitar.

Respectfully

p.s. as you see english is not my first language.  I hope that I'm able to get through without hurting anyone feeling...  I'm eager to do the best we can here...

Being a player and a wannabe (someday) luthier, I figure I'll chime in on this one and at the risk of my flame suit, I'll let my thoughts wander as they may.

It's hard to string together the right words to describe why my luthier guitar is better than any other instrument I've ever played. The phrase "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" comes to mind. If you go to the M@rtin factory, you go to a factory. It's an assembly line-- one D-28 after another rolls off the line, some more remarkable than others, some not so much. I'm not denegrating this process-- it ensures a relatively consistent, desirable product reaches those who desire it.

My guitar, however, was born out of an East Indian Rosewood, a Mahogany, and a beautiful old growth Redwood who gave their lives not knowing that their parts would end up in the hands of Lance Kragenbrink a few years ago. I have 4 D-28's of varying vintages. I can't name a single person who worked on any of them. I have ONE E2. I know the man that worked each piece of wood, deftly tuning each plate to what the ear wanted to hear and the wood willing to relinquish.

I have a designated e-mail folder archiving hundreds of e-mails between Lance and I discussing the finer (and not so finer) points of luthery, music, and how our families are doing. I've never called the M@rtin factory to tell them how amazed I was when it came out of the box or how others describe my guitar as "alive." I called Lance just to wish him well on his way to the Healdsburg Guitar Festival.

The musician who seeks a factory guitar typically has reached a point in his/her playing where he/she needs "something different"-- meaning, a professional level instrument. The musician who seeks a luthier made guitar has typically progressed beyond that point, needing an instrument capable of delivering physical, tonal, and intrensic qualities he/she has identified in his/her own playing. Such time and attention to detail is rarely found on an assembly line, more readily found in the basement of a lone craftsman.

Incidentally, someone beat me to the punch and wrote a great book of the journey of his custom guitar's construction. I would highly suggest this read before the festival. Maybe someone here can post the title, as it evades me at the moment.

I regard the individuals here as the Stradivari of our time. Stradivarius, (and for that matter, Guarneri) by whose hands violin construction was truly defined, was avant-garde and probably considered a heretic by his luthery comrades. Innovation begets standard practice, and has throughout history-- reference the works of Stradivarius, Guarneri, Orville Gibson, C.F. Martin, Henry Ford, etc. Today's luthiers, especially those of the O.L.F. are innovators in their field, eschewing the dictatorial drawings readily available from the major parts houses in favor of shapes, sizes, and composition in construction regarded by the aforementioned assembly line manufacturers with "we've never done it that way before" syndrome.

So, I guess to try and sum it all up, I can't say for sure what makes a luthier built instrument better. Pick mine up-- it will be going to your show whether I do or not-- and you'll be left with the same feeling I am-- it is what it is; to use words to describe what it is (rather than listen to its sound) only cheapens what it has to offer. I hope I've helped more than rambled. Answering this question is very much akin to attempting an answer to "What do you see in Picasso's paintings?" Etherial, mystical, and possibly downright looney to some, yet completely understood by a blessed few.

       

Randy, in my last post, I also meant to mention how much I agree with your statement about the "gestalt" inherent in an instrument well crafted by one person.  Well said.

And you certainly won't see me arguing that quality isn't primary.  But quality often isn't as objective as we might like it to be.  I remember trying to get feedback on my first guitar.  I had 2 different professional musicians give me polar opposite feedback.  "Great bass" and, "sounds good but could use more bass".

Rick said: When we're all dead, our guitars will only be bought and sold on the sonic, playability, and artistic merits. It won't matter whether we drove Hummers or rode bikes.  

What about the collectors who pay $30,000 for an instrument that they may never even string up to pitch?  If Elvis sweated on it, the value goes up for some folks.  You won't see me paying for Elvis sweat but I will buy things from people I like and avoid people I don't because relationships matter to me.  They color my experience and add (or sometimes subtract) value.  Just being able to put a face behind a product rather than a factory logo means something to a lot of folks.  And in my book, it should.

_________________
http://www.chassonguitars.com

[QUOTE=pharmboycu]


Incidentally, someone beat me to the punch and wrote a great book of the journey of his custom guitar's construction. I would highly suggest this read before the festival. Maybe someone here can post the title, as it evades me at the moment.


        [/QUOTE]

Funny you should mention this book... I purchased it last week end in Washington DC while sightseeing (great museums!) and I already finished it... It is WONDERFULL!

It is called «Guitar, an american Life» by National Public Radio commentator Tim Brookes who Wgets us to experience the conception, the gestation and birth of his first
"child", a custom concert jumbo Running Dog acoustic by master builder
Rick Davis (who is also an exhibitor at the Montreal Guitar Show and on our advisory board...).

I reads like a novel and is a great gift suggestion to avoid the unwanted piece of clothing!

I read that book cover to cover in one sitting, completely engrossed. I think it should be standard issue to all those contemplating the purchase of an instrument from a company or from a luthier. Incidentally, I just got off the phone with Lance. Stay tuned for a SPECTACULAR instrument at the Montreal Guitar Show. Oh yeah-- I forgot to mention above. Nearly as soon as the E2 he built arrived, I asked for another guitar.   

Geez Rick what do you know? Why don't you go and dip your guitars in
some plastic already!    

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

[QUOTE=John Mayes] Geez Rick what do you know? Why don't you go and
dip your guitars in
some plastic already!    



[/QUOTE]

Oops that was supposed to be a reply in the waterborne discussion...
Doesn't really fit here.. Well that and it's a world wide web somewhat inside
joke...

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

There are those that have the courage to teach (Tradition/innovation/this_works_for_me) here and other similar places. In today's mass produced world we are in danger of losing a set of skills/knowledge that are probably very hard to pass on in any but the smallest
of factorie.


I have respect for those that show transparency of methodology/practices, it is there for review and possibly criticism : its like writing a book and only getting paid through knowing that they are keeping alive a craft and possibly the advancement of said craft.

Since said persons are not a threat to the existence of the factories(which are needed) I would hope that they achieve decently comfortable lives.

Honestly go to Frank Fords site. Can you put a dollar value to the knowledge passed on?

There are other reason for supporting other luthiers (Benedetto/Manzer/etc.) but you are at the reason to support the ones here.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Na, actually the tone faerie told me it is the romantic thing to do and I do not want to live in a world without mojo.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

John, I knew you were hanging out over in the land of jumping fleas!

For the rest of you, there's been quite a set of dust-ups over at the Flea Market uke forum on 1) finishes, 2) pore filling, and 3) the dreaded discusson re. the difference between noble but poor starving artist uke builder one man shop types and us evil manufacturers who live to dip our instruments in liquid toxins and rape the wilderness. It actually got down to one builder falling back on his use of a bicycle as an implied reason why folks should buy his products.   

I don't happen to think that my lifestyle should necessarily equate with why someone should buy my instruments. Hence my comment re. when we're dead...

Besides which, I want to be cremated in a Brazilian rosewood coffin with a fire started with cans and cans of nitro lacquer...

Fantastic. I have a book just like that called The Violin Maker, which
is the violin equivalent. I'm going to get that.

It actually got down to one builder falling back on his use of a
bicycle as an implied reason why folks should buy his products. 

LOL!

Where's this forum? I need to bookmark it for my next sleepless night when I need a good read... 

     This is a great thread! Thanks to Jacques for starting it. We luthiers
tend to understand the things that bring our customers to us and keep
them coming back to us in many cases, but sometimes, they don't even
think about those things or really understand them themselves.

     I think that most of our customers have already been through enough
great production guitars as they've learned to play and, in turn, learned
what they liked and disliked about those guitars as they moved from one
to another in search of the tone and playability that would inspire them as
they grew as players.

   By the time they were ready to make the jump to the custom guitar
world and the daunting prospect of initiating a commission with a
builder. I know that I have, and assume that every builder has, spent time
with a potential customer answering questions and explaining the
differences between guitars built in a factory and those built by a single
luthier in a small shop.

    Sometimes, those potential customers have ended up walking away
from those conversations with as many questions as they entered them
with, but with some education on the craft, the guitars, the woods and
the builders in the industry. I mention alot of builders when I talk to a
player who is considering their first custom guitar and ends up on the
phone or in the shop with me. I give them a good set of resources
incuding phone numbers, email addresses and website URLs of other
builders that they cb check out to get more ideas about what they're
looking for.

    I don't take the posture of being the best or being able to build the
absolute best guitar to meet their very unique and personal needs and
desires, but instead, try to help them to find the path to the builder who
will. There have been times that they end up coming back to order from
me and there have been times that they have taken a recommendation or
endorsement from me that another particular builder specializes in or has
mastered the kind of guitar that they'd described to me and ended up
ordering from them.

   I want customers to end up with a guitar that fulfills a dream for
them...whether they are my customers or another builder's. That's one
thing that I've had people come back to tell me that they like most about
the custom guitar industry. I have plenty of orders and a deep backlog
and am not so insecure that I need to convince every player who calls me
that they absolute need a guitar from my shop.

    If my guitar is what's best for them, they'll end up back in my shop
with a list of details they want to see in their completed guitar and a
deposit check. If not, I'll be happy to direct them to the shop of the
builder whose guitar is the absolute best for them, but I also reamain
careful to direct them to builders who are known for their ability to create
and maintain a good relationship with a new customer since that
relationship is such an important part of the process of commissioning a
guitar.

    The match and subsequent releationship between the player and guitar
is the most important thing and we, as small and solo builders, can still
ensure that it starts on the right foot...if it is in fact, our main concern.
We can save players loads of headaches and years of searching through
guitars on their quest for their "holy grail".

    The guitars are a huge part of this business and have become the most
important part for the large production houses, but for us solo guys, the
customer and their reaction to and relationship with us and our work can
still be the most important part of it.

    That's precisely why a player should come to a luthier for their dream
guitar. They not only get to build a friendship with a wonderful guitar that
can inspire them for many years, but they also get to establish a lasting
friendship with the person who built it for them.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I think we need to be very careful about the hubris of thinking that luthier-built guitars automatically sound better than factory-made ones, and we need to be equally careful not to assume that there are no real luthiers working in some major guitar factories.

I played a D-18 Authentic at the Martin factory that blew away 90% of the luthier-made dreadnoughts I've played. I use to own a Ren Ferguson-built BZ/Sitka Gibson Advanced Jumbo that was an absolute killer guitar. One of the "I never shoulda sold it" guitars I used to own was a '57 Martin 000-28...supposedly not a great era...

Don't get too cocky about being a luthier. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, not the chef's outfit.

Rick,
   I agree tat the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is the guitar, but
it sure is a great thing to know the chef. I know some great luthiers who
are working in the big shops, but the sad thing is that the customer can
never get to know them or have any input in the design or construction of
any of the guitars that they'll be a part of building.

   We should never get cocky about what we do or the fact fact that it's us
that does it, but we should enjoy the friendships that we are able to enjoy
so we get to know our customers. You know that you understand what
I'm saying since you regualrly mention the names of famous players that
have bought and played your guitars over the years and that you've had
relationships with.

   I have a beautiful Clapton model 000 from the original series back in
the early 90s and a Perry Bechtel Special model 000. Both ound better
than most small shop built guitars and I was able to watch them make
their way through the production process at Martin while they were built.

   You're right about great guitars making their way our of the factories.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

With no disrespect intended I have to disagree here with what I am reading.

The original question was asked by Jacques-Andre in an effort to assist the Luthiers exhibiting at the Montreal show sell their guitars AND to assist the attendees at this show understand the value proposition of purchasing, owning, playing, and enjoying the heck out of a Luthier built guitar.  In short - we are being asked an even more basic question in my view - why do we do what we do and build guitars.

Some of us replied that Luthier built guitars, generally speaking, sound better.  Others offered the level of customization available or a greater degree of quality in the construction.  Then there is the gestalt argument and the idea that something, when passionately pursued, becomes more than the sum of it's parts and I will add perhaps even more then an inanimate object as well.

But I want to return to something that to me is very basic:  Generally speaking a quality built/crafted guitar from a talented, experienced Luthier WILL and DOES sound better.  And regardless of if the buyer can appreciate the toil involved, the bling that may be present - or not, the years of study and practice required - at the end of the day, where the rubber meets the road, the tone and sound of the guitar will either thrill and excite or not.

Although I am sure that a $6K - $30K Martin "Authentic" could sound like a dream these guitars are now very much playing in the pricing segment of many very fine Luthier built guitars.  And the argument can also be made that these models may in fact be Luthier built guitars and not factory guitars.  Martin also has thousands of tops, sides, backs to bin and select for this series and clearly some very talented builders/Luthiers too.

So folks you have to believe in what we do.  If I didn't believe that it is possible for me to build a better sounding guitar, consistently, then any guitar that I can purchase at Guitar Center I would quit building.

And if you don't honestly believe in what we do, that your craftsmanship produces better sounding guitars then factory guitars, how do you ever expect to convince a prospective buyer that your guitars are worthy of their consideration and a sincere privilege to play and own?

I have played guitars by Woolson, Hank, Lance, Matt, McKnight, Polling, Turner, and many more of you and they ALL sounded better to me then any guitar that I could purchase at a Guitar Center.  Perhaps the term GLO (guitar like object) should be slightly, but importantly modified to now read GCLO (Guitar Center like object)?

Believe it, know it, wear it on your sleeve - Luthier crafted guitars DO sound better.

Have a great day!

In September this year I had the pleasure of exhibiting at the Acoustic Guitar Show in Cheltenham. This is the first time something like this has been done here in the UK where "luthiers/hand builders" could display their creations for acoustic guitar players to sample. For many visitors there it was the first time they had seen such things!!

The organisers also invited some retailers of "boutique/factory" made instruments such as Lowden, Martin, Taylor, Breedlove and others. I had a discussion with one of the three organisers (all enthusiasts rather than trade people) about this and he said it was good for both the retailers and handbuilders as the visitors could actually play lots of both types of instrument and compare. He was right.

The biggest moment of satisfaction I had was talking to a keen player about the factory/handbuilder differences who was marvelling about a ?5,000 ($10,000)Breedlove guitar he had just played. He was saying that he had never been able to work out how to justify paying such huge amounts for a guitar but after playing it he could see - it sounded wonderful. So I handed him one of my guitars that cost about a third as much as the Breedlove and said "Have a play of this". He sat there playing for about 10-15 mins and then looked up at me. "What do you think of the Breedlove now?" I asked. "It's way, way overpriced" he replied. My other favourite comment was from another player who said "Wow - even my playing sounds good on this guitar".

So Jacques-Andre - let them come, let them play and let them compare and as Mario so rightly said they will either get it or they won't.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Hesh,

    I agree whole heartedly with your comments above, but we also need
to be fair to the customers who are seeking what wll be major
investments for many of them and may even be handed down as
heirlooms to coming generations when we make claims that lutheir built
guitars sound better than production guitars as an absolute and all
inclusive statement.

    There are alot of young builders who had only built three or four
guitars and decided that they were luthiers and were ready to jump into
the very same marketplace as others who have built many more. They
have great fitting skills to make everything look wonderful and finishing
skills that can make it shine beautifully when it's done, but their lack od
experience still shows in alot of respects.

    Now before anyone jumps on that comment as a jab at builders who
haven't accumulated numbers, let me expound on it a little. There are
sme newer builders who have taken the craft much more seriously than
others and have really made efforts...and significant financial investments
in their education and training as a luthier. These are guys who are
growing as luthiers at a rate much faster than the guy who just had some
woodworking skills and played guitars and either had a shop already or
the funds necessary to build one at his disposal and jumped in and
started selling.

     There's ne young builder who made an incredible thing happen a whila
ago. I spoke with him and he'd told me that he'd just completed his 30th
guitar during a phone coversation about some finish materials and
techniques. Only a week later there was a post at a forum from a player
saying that he'd just received a beautiful guitar from this same builder
and it was number 125 in his build history. 95 guitars in a single
week....that's 13 1/2 guitars a day since he shared with me that he'd just
finished number 30.

    The guy's a great guy and is building some very cool things, but his
building still reflects some things that need attention and his tone is very
generic since he just hasn't had the time to develop it yet.

   I believe that your statement about handbuilt guitars sounding better
than factory built guitars would be better stated if it was worded, "hand
built guitars sound more consistently better than factory built
guitars....and that can vary from builder to builder."

   As far as all of the very high priced Martin pieces like the Authentics
and all that, most folks, including builders are a little disillusioned about
their birth. Those authentic pieces slide down the same rails in the factory
as every other guitar and 90% or more of the work on them is done with
the same automation and machinery as all the others. The same is true of
ALL custome shop guitars from Martin.

    There is no custom shop to speak of at Martin. There are a few of the
more skilled set up guys in an area where they can give those "special"
models a bit more attention at the end of the line. The vintage style necks
are still CNC shaped, the sides are still bent on the electric benders and
all of the major components are CNC cut or fabricated. It's a fact that
some may argue and others may have heard differently about from
someone at Martin, but it is the truth of the matter.

    Granted, there is additional time taken to separate the woods for those
special models, but it is handled at the regular wood grading station
there in the shop. All of the woods are inspected, first for defects, and
then for the qualities that distinguish tham as "Master Grade", "Standard
Grade" and any other levels of quality that they can use to make their
huge variety of models.

    From that inventory of "Master Grade" wood, the materials for the
custom, special or limited edition models are chosen so there is still a
certain element of chance in the equation for even the most expensive
and elite models. Bracing is pulled from boxes of bracing, tops, backs
and sides are pulled from huge stacks of each as are all of the
components as they travel at blinding speed through the shop.

    The difference is that, with all master grade materials being set aside
for those models and a bit more time and attention being given to
specific potions of the build process, there is a far greater chance that a
great set set of pieces are going to end up on the becnh at the same time
and a woderful guitar is going to result from it.

    So, do ALL handbuilt guitars sound better than ALL factory built guitar?
Sorry, but no. It depends on the builder, his abilities to select and match
components that will compliment one another in the tone creating
marriage that a guitar is and his depth of understanding the coaxing of
each component as close as possiblt to its tonal and structural potential.

    We're all growing (or should be), but some are so busy filling orders
early in their careers that their time to learn and nvest in their education
and knowledge as a luthier has been eaten up. They are in a market
where almost identical copies of some of the most popular and expensive
guitars being built are common while being offered at a fraction of the
price. Players jump aboard with hopes that they may be the next Jim
Olson or Kevin Ryan and that their guitars will increase in value so quickly
that they trun out to be powerful investments.

    We have builders like Michael Bashkin and Paul Woolson who are
building awesome sounding and playing guitars at a frction of the price
being asked by another well known builder whose guitar pale in
comparison to the work of either of them. It's a funny thing and the
people who make up the market are as guilty of the "If I paid more, I must
have gotten more." mentality as those in any other specialty market. I
have an friend who is a well known engraver and he sold a knife a little
while ago for nearly $250k to a Japanese collector....A SMALL FOLDING
POCKET KNIFE!!! Figure that out, but the guy robably feels like he got his
money's worth.

    The fact is though, that in order to get an Olson, you actually have to
shell out the number of dollars that it takes and the same is true of the
other very popular builders who have been able to generate that kind of
perception of their guitars' value. I've talked to enough of these high
dollar builders to see that they are humble and gracious and are just
doing good business as they test the envelope pf pricing for their great
guitars.

Sorry for being so long, but what's new,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

If you change the question to why do people buy custom tailored clothing.

Is it better?
Maybe.

Does it look better?
Probably, but most people don't notice.

Does it wear better?
Probably, but most people won't notice.

Does allow the buyer to get exactly what s/he wants?
Yes, but I suspect many leave many of the decisions to the tailor.

Does it make the buyer feel DIFFERENT from the herd of people buying off the rack?
ABSOLUTELY! I think this is a prime motivation.



I also think much of this parallels our consumer as well.

There are a lot of reasons why people will buy a luthier made guitar. Some are for perceived quality advantages, some are to get weird custom instruments that you can't find elsewhere, some to feel like they are buying into the craft, romance and expertise of the maker, but finally, it lets them stand out in a crowd when everyone pulls their guitars out of the case.

That psychology is very real and it pertains to a lot of luxury items. There is a very interesting study called VALS (Values and Lifestyle survey) which goes into great detail about people's consumer motivations. It is very interesting to read a summary of their findings.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I do not agree that guitars made by a good luthier automatically sound better than factory guitars. Sound is very subjective and these are tools for musicians, all of whom are different and in different musical sitautions. An overbuilt, overbraced factory guitar has its own particular tone. That tone is the best tone for certain players and situations.

The luthier must understand that... part of the value a luthier brings to the table is that he or she should be able to make sure the tone of the instrument matches the needs of the musician, whether it's one of their instruments or one of Taylor's, Martin's, etc.

[QUOTE=Hesh] Generally speaking a quality built/crafted guitar from a talented, experienced Luthier WILL and DOES sound better. 



[/QUOTE]

Kevin and others no disagreement here from me but please reread what I said above.

Generally speaking means not always right?  Although "quality built/crafted", "talented", and "experienced Luthier" are somewhat subjective I believe that you and I would agree on definitions Kevin. 

My statement was never intended to imply that any hand built guitar by a self proclaimed "Luthier" would always sound better than factory guitars. 

So again no disagreement from me if you take my statement as it was offered and clearly written.

Many of our pals here fall into the category that I describe above, experienced, talented, and justifiably entitled IMHO to call themselves Luthiers.  These are the folks who I believe are entitled to march to the banner that "generally speaking" a Luthier built guitar will sound better then a factory built guitar.

The real point of my post was that if you are offering superb guitars you need to toot your own horn about it and let people know.  And, I will add, that if you are building superb guitars I believe that you are entitled to make this claim. 

Sure sound/tone is subjective and that plays into the truth of Mario's statement that some people just won't get it.....  Nor will they ever.

And I am sure that there are many exceptions and never any absolutes about any thing.  But this is why I framed my comment with "generally speaking."

There is an old and rather cold expression in the sales game that reads:  Some will, some won't, so what - next.

Peace