Official Luthiers Forum!

Mahogany back and sides, adirondack top OM

Philip - My post wasn't directed at you (in fact you posted while I was typing, I hadn't even seen your post). I was making a more general point that a lot of us have opinions on what tone certian wood combinations produce, but I doubt that in a blind listening test we could guess above a level of chance. I remember one post here where someone did a test with several guitars (OMs I think) one was Brazilian and three others of various woods. The one that got the most votes for Brazilian was in fact someting else. I still have my opinions, but I'm not sure I would want to put them to a true blind test.

                            Peace, Paul

Yes, I agree that guessing the woods is really impossible. If anyone hits it dead on, they had insider help or got just plain lucky.

Now as for the timbre of the instrument in respect to the body size, yes I think we should be able to hear that, at least to some extent. Most everyone visualizes a smaller box, based on what they heard. However, I suspect that with a capo on a dred, and playing or avoiding certain giveaway frequencies, someone could purposely steer us all away from thinking "dred." Would Dave do that to us? Naaaaa! It's a small body.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

What kind of strings did you use?

Here's a suggestion...play the same 3 songs on a guitar we can use for a reference. Maybe a Sitka to with rosewood sides OM or Dread for example

We are all going to look pretty silly when it turns out to be Guitar Hero through an X-Box 360...........

i think i agree that we are all very quick to describe what a certain wood sounds like, but have a pretty hard time with a blind listening test. that being said, i still want to take a crack at it. good chance it will be the exact opposite. what i hear is something similar to a spruce/mahogony family sound. and by mahogony, i mean maple. against my better judgement, im going to say sitka spruce and maple.

we should do this more often.

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sweat the small stuff.

Dave, I think that's great! I don't see why it should be taken as a joke at
all. I like Paul's post. My guess would be along the lines of most others:
a mahogany-ish back and sides, and a spruce-of-some-sort top. Also I'd
guess a 00 or 000.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Dennis I listened to each song 20-30 times because I took it as a challenge and I feel it does have the sound of an all mahogany guitar.

Spruce or cedar tops respond differently and have more overtones.
Doug fir would sound crisper and less open
Koa I feel would be more treble balanced.

If it was built heavy it would have a less responsive rounded sound.

If I am right and it just feels like I am it is not luck, I hear mahogany and light construction.

If it is spruce and rosewood I am going to be really embare-assed. Honestly though rosewood sounds glassy-er to me so I doubt it.

I am listening to a recording though so I am going to shut up before my foot gets any deeper into me orifice.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Jeez I can't shut up I am obsessed trying to figure this out it mimics the way I feel when I build.

Dave where are you? I am digging myself a hole Da***%^!

Heath maple to me is like mahogany without the openness.
Same with cherry and walnut to a lesser degree.

Guys listen to how the top responds to differing attacks, if it was spruce it would have to be way overbuilt.

I have built three lightly constructed all mahog deep body dulcimers with pinned bridges and they had a similar sound.

Every one but Warren you are making me doubt myself but I really just feel I hear it strongly.

I took me a while to get here but I really really hear it. I have the feeling I get when towards the end of a build and I just know I nailed a sound I was chasing.
Wish I could say it happens every time.

Only a goofball would try maple under a mahogany top(me).

Small bodied lightly built all mahogany, with Dave's style of neck block, FINAL ANSWER.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

I feel sort of goofy all day long I could not let go of thinking about this. I finally can let it go.


Jeez Dave you have a sadistic streak don't ya.


              Kirby GRRRR

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

I thought the only way I could try to actually get used to this laptops speakers, your recordings would be to listen to your sound clips. I did this and had a couple contenders that were sounding close, but something was not quite right. Then I think I clicked on a link that turned out to be your latest build (which I assume is this one).

I used to record and mix a fair bit, and I learned you really have to get used to your speakers, and even then the room, mic placement, the mic itself and so forth really colors things up. I really have to be used to the way something sounds recorded with a given setup and played back on a system I am familiar with. To be able to really recognize what I am hearing, but I am sure other guys have better ears for this sort of thing than me.

Either way, Sounds great! I really enjoyed the clips on your site also. Wonderful stuff

Peace,Rich

[QUOTE=paul harrell] Doesn't it seem funny that luthiers are always
quick to tell people what a certain wood combination will sound like, but
when given a recording and asked to guess all we can do is make jokes,
because we don't have a clue?

                        Clueless as usual, Paul[/QUOTE]

Punctuated by the fact that most players on acoustic guitar forums get
pretty dang close. I'm thinking of one in particular Doug Young did not
too long ago on the Acoustic Player Magazine forum where it was not only
guess the wood, but guess the builder.

Thanks for having a go. I did this partly for fun but also as I'm fascinated how the brain works. When sound clips are combined with pictures of the guitar then I'm sure the "visual" part of your brain is combining with the "audible" part in interpreting how you hear it. Also when you hear clips of more than one instrument and have to select the tonewoods there is a referencing going on, comparing one to another. Just hearing one guitar is hard - it's also a lottery depending on the recording situation and what you listen through of course. I was more interested in interpretation of the top-wood but if I had focussed on this only that would have probably changed the way you listen knowing that the top is different from most guitars - so I said top and b/s woods. Personally, I find it very hard to home in on woods from listening to clips - the sound is very definitely in the builder and players hands which is very re-assuring.

So Kirby - I'm not being sadistic I was just asleep Yes it is a small bodied all mahogany guitar! I was well impressed with where you got too in the end though I apologise for the state it got you in. Warren you got it too.

Cecil - the strings were D'Addario EJ16's freshly on and they'd gone slightly out of tune for Candi's Rag but it was meant as a sound sample rather than "performance" so I didn't have the patience for another take.

Dennis - I was upfront about Capo positions

Hesh - looking forward to getting the carbon

I'll do a seperate post now with pictures and a description.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010