Official Luthiers Forum!

The Les Paul Classic has an arched top:
1. How difficult is it to carve an LP arched top.
2. How thick does the top have to be to enable the Arch.
3. Is a LP a more difficult build than a Tele?
Thanks.

Bob...I'm part way through such a build and it's vastly different from the Strat and Tele-types I have built.

1) Some say it's easy to carve the top...I may say the same if I ever do another. I'm just starting to carve the top now and it requires a lot of planning and patience. I'm using planes, chisels, rasps, files, scrapers and sandpaper.

2) My curly maple top started at just over 1/2"

3) IMO, the Tele is the easiest electric to build by far; so far, the LP is the most difficult.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I have used the Benedetto method of drilling holes at a given depth along the arch. I think this method works best.

I have also tried using a safe-t-planer and cutting "rings" at different depths to hog off most of the wood. I think this is harder. The body wants to grab if you take too big of a bite, and it is hard to precisely run the safe-t-planer on a given line.

Route for your pick ups, control cavity and drill the holes for your knobs first. (It is obviously easier to cut on the flat surface than on the arched one.)

After the holes are drilled it is a lot of planing and scraping. It is slow, tedious work. Maple is tough to carve ... even with a really sharp plane. And if it has wild figure it is so much the harder.

Just go slow... it will get there.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock...do you have a drilling plan for the depth of your holes at different levels? In addition to the above tools for contouring, I'm also considering using an angle grinder with large grit sandpaper to erase the drill holes. If I had more cajones, I'd consider the Lancelot!

I'm still flat for the most part. I have established the 4.5* UB angle and neck pocket as well as the PUP cavities, switch and pot holes.

I plan to establish the longitudinal curvature with the bridge location at its apex next and then provide a 1/2" wide x 3/16" high flat surface along the perimeter of the top. Once that's prepped, I'll address the lateral arch contour.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

The one time I did a LP I used a 4" grinder with various grits (started with an
60 and finished up with a 120), then clean it up with a 5" RO sander.
If I were to do it again, I'd cut a rabbet all the way around at the depth of the
"arch" and grind to there. The rows of holes seems tedious to me.
What Brock said about all the mechanical cavities before cutting the arch.
-C

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

[QUOTE=bob J] The Les Paul Classic has an arched top:
1. How difficult is it to carve an LP arched top.
2. How thick does the top have to be to enable the Arch.
3. Is a LP a more difficult build than a Tele?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

1. 5 on a scale of 1-10.

2. 5/8"

3. yes

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Maybe that should be 6 on a 1-10. Or 5.5?

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Brock...do you have a drilling plan for the depth of your holes at different levels? In addition to the above tools for contouring, I'm also considering using an angle grinder with large grit sandpaper to erase the drill holes. If I had more cajones, I'd consider the Lancelot!

I'm still flat for the most part. I have established the 4.5* UB angle and neck pocket as well as the PUP cavities, switch and pot holes.

I plan to establish the longitudinal curvature with the bridge location at its apex next and then provide a 1/2" wide x 3/16" high flat surface along the perimeter of the top. Once that's prepped, I'll address the lateral arch contour.

[/QUOTE]


I found an arch guide on the MIMF that was sampled from an actual LP. It wasn't particularly uniform so I redrew it to be more even across the arch.

Once I had that I made lots of pin holes on the lines and transferred marks on the top corresponding to the holes. Then I drilled. I did find it is helpful to use colored pencils when you do this so you don't get confused about how deep each hole should be.

Regarding the idea of cutting a small rabbet all the way around the perimeter for reference. I have done that. It works great for the most part. You have to watch out though in the cutaway area. On a natural carve the plate is thicker in this area.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I have programs for the Fadal to make Les Paul bodies, just never had the need to make any. I wonder if pre-carved LP tops would sell...

When I was making carved tops manually, the angle grinder and sanding disk was the way to go. I carved my first one entirely with a scraper and that was -NOT- the way to go. You could hog out some of the material with a belt sander or forstner bits, but a grinder with a 30 grit disk does the trick pretty fast.

The shape of the LP is more or less an arch longitudinally with a bit of a recurve on the belly end. The lateral curves are all cycloid corves (horizontal at both ends and in the middle). I think it's easier to just think of it as horizontal at all the sides and eyeball it as you're carving if you're doing it manually.

And, as some have said, waaay harder than a tele. A tele body can be made, minus pockets, with a roundover bit and a straight bit in a router and a shape template in a few minutes. Even on a CNC the Les Paul takes some time.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I 'eyeball' the arch/carve shape, but you can always draw out a contour on some card and cut it out for reference if you like. Like Brock says, there's a basic map in the MIM library.

I always route a flat around the perimeter, but not the inside of the horn/horns, sometimes drill holes to indicate the right depth (mapped out, Benedetto style), and have at it with an angle grinder and a 60 grit disk. And a GOOD dust mask. And do it outside. And some padded gloves against the vibration. Then spend about 20 minutes or so carving, and with a bit of practice you can get very, very, very close indeed. I finish up with an orbitoal sander, finger planes and scrapers for various details (recurve, tighter curves, refining the shape, etc.)

Last carve I did was in spruce, for an 'electric archtop', inside and out, with a shot of the flap disc used for most of the grunt work. Those pesky pitch lines were hidden in the original blank:

If one is using an angle grinder with 'traditional' sandpaper for the disc I find 24 grit to be the king for massive wood removal...I've been using that grade for years to cope my joints as a trim carpenter, and once one gets used to the fact that a mistimed sneeze can wreak havoc its all good..