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looked very much like white spruce.

And that's why I only trust the cutter, not a middle man. Even someone with the Zootman's integrity can be duped and then we're duped.

White, red, black spruce. Once cut, nobody can tell one from the other, and not even under a microscope. Send it to every lab you can find. Even DNA won't help, as the same soil and the same acre of land can have a red, or a black, or a white spruce on it. Even with the bark, they're often impossible to tell, especially when hybrids are considered(and they do exist). There are generalities that we ca use, but there just is no sure way. After the cones and needles are gone, we're left with the lumberjack's word...

In fact, Dana Bourgeois mentioned not long ago that we will never really know if those great pre war Martins were indeed all red spruce, with odds being that some white and red was indeed used. We know tha Martin would buy logs in log yards, and even there, it's often impossible to tell one from the other. I had wondered the same, and was happy to read that I'm not alone with the thought. What if it turns out that Tony Rice's is Black spruce and not red? What then...

And living in such a forest, and having sawn all 3 of the above, I can vouch than a good white spruce is as good as any red which is a dead ringer for any given black spruce. I use colored magic markers(red, black, and blue) to keep track of mine; Otherwise, they'll get lost among one another.

Perhaps the best term yet is indeed "Adirondack" spruce. All 3 species, and their hybrids, grow there.... Perhaps it's about time we just lumped 'em all together under that umbrella, and go back to making dang fine guitars from the best woods we can get, instead of worrying  so much about the wood's heritage and Nationality(I get a chuckle every time I read that line about the US red spruce being the only good red spruce. When the hell did trees begin to acknowledge political borders? .

Ack....



.bah .humbug

I have never been dissapointed with anyting from RC Tonewoods or Colonial Tonewoods--always topnotch products and even better service!

Another source of red spruce is Carl Barney. He usually has a table at the ASIA symposium.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Anybody know if Ted Davis is still offering Redblackwhite Adirondack? I got a couple of tops from him some 12+ years ago.... Interesting fella, cut the wood himself from some trees felled in the Smoky Mountains (I think...) National Park. They had been cleared for a new road, and he was in the right place at the right time.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

"And that's why I only trust the cutter, not a middle man. Even someone with the Zootman's integrity can be duped and then we're duped."
Very true Mario. That's why I buy directly from the cutter. If I am being duped then it's by the same French Canadian that's duping you. <bg>

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Steve and Bob,
I have bought from both (many other woods also) and ALL I have received hs been only the finest quality.
There's been some posts here about naming logs or trees (am not sure what's named. MAKES ME LAUGH! Pretty soon we will be getting registered papers. Just like the papers from the AKC for purebred puppies

Good to hear, Bob C. I haven't built with any of his, yet(still roll my own <g>), but I have some.

Where did the 'origional' old Martin stuff come from? Is there anyone selling tops from that area or the US?

What did Martin use on their new series of $6000.00 pre war style dreds?

Martin's new top grade stuff (such as the top on their millionth guitar) came
from John Griffin @ old standard.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

here are a few pics from my recent trip to Old standard wood....


John and I sitting on a Large Red Spruce Log


Upstairs in his climate controlled room... this is about 1/8th of the
room... some mando stuff to the right and guitar stuff on the left.



about 1200 insane adirondack tops. This is the best of the 90,000+ tops
john has cut... he is saving them. He calls it his "retirement fund!"


One of my favorite grades


One of his retirement fund tops..


Bunch of lower grade tops if I remember right...

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

They also have some fantastic maple. I have a couple of one piece red maple mandolin backs (with matching neck and sides of course) that are absolutely stunning...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I just talked with Richard Bouchet about some wood. The phone number
given here is an old one; his new, and up to date, phone number is: 819-
822-9999.

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Boucher, not Bouchet

Mario -
Thanks. No edit key!

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Soon... we'll have edit powers, soon(but not soon enough)

So, to repeat an earlier question, does anybody have experience with the lower grades from Old Standard? I'm not a stickler (especially at this stage of my building) for the pristine, even grain, tight grain count spruce that goes for big bucks - in fact, I'm kind of a fan of somewhat stripey spruce that has "character".

But, I don't really want junk wood, either...

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

I bought a half dozen of the common grade when I started building. I said I was more interested in stiffness than cosmetics. That's pretty much what I got. I think they were an excellent value. It helps if you like wood with "character" when buying Adi tops, unless of course you're willing to spend stupid money. Somewhere I've got some pictures of those tops... I'll post some if I can find them.

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Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

I've bought many of the $75 tops and they were perfectly fine. some pink
streaking, but nothing too crazy. They sounded fantastic. Guess I'm just
spending the stupid money now ;)

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Sounds pretty promising, I may just have to go for it. After all, these will be coupled with some $25 Allied "opportunity grade" backs and sides.

Jim, I'd love to see those pics!

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

Wes I also can supply you with Adi tops in that price range.
If your interested send me a PM.
Regards
"The Zootman"

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Done, Bob. Thanks!

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

John Griffin's 4 piece tops are a great bargain too. I have one that I bought for $60 that would probably be $200+ if it was a 2 piece top. It is pretty and most importantly, it's stiff and light with little to no runout.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds