Official Luthiers Forum!

Michael-
Sorry, but I thought my post was pretty clear.
In my 'book', if a robot makes a guitar part, then the guitar is no longer completely 'hand-crafted'. It doesn't matter (to me) who does the programming and who pushes the 'GO' button on the robot. I do think that most folks have a pretty clear idea about the meaning of 'hand-crafted' - my car is not 'hand-crafted' even though some of the seat covers may be hand-sewn by a worker at a sewing machine.
Hand-crafted means 100% 'hands on', not 'remote control' manufacture. You gotta state the exceptions, as you apparently do, since you say your customers know when you use CNC'd necks.
So (as of now) my guitars are 'hand-crafted with hand and power tools' with the exception of the tuners, truss rods, strings, and bridge pins, which I buy from outside suppliers.
If (and when) I get ad copy on my website, that's the sort of thing I'll include.
This is getting into the area of theology/philosophy, not building!

I'm outta here!

Cheers
John

I enjoy starting with a log, and building a guitar. I also enjoy starting with a serviced kit and building a guitar. When they are finished they are both still my work.

Al

Hesh's second to last post. Last sentence.

If this link works it's to a good CNC vs. handmade discussion a couple years ago. It's a thread mostly discussed by builders who run their own shop CNC which might bring up a better debate points of whether a builder who makes his own parts on his own CNC is closer to hand made than a builder who buys parts from a CNC shop. This hand made vs. CNC debate will go on until every shop or builder can afford a CNC then it will be industry standard

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid= 85923

I had a really good action flick in the DVD player all ready to go, big bowl of popcorn, lots of butter (hold the salt please) and poured myself a large rumbeer

I read this thread again, much more action here than the flick.

Thanks for entertaining me ya'll.

Don't you just love this place? I know I do.

Oh, and John's moving so he may not be available right now

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=Hesh] If you wanna neck - John is your man.Wait a minute that did not sound right........
[/QUOTE]

Okay then, I'm not even gonna ask about the "light petting" zoo...

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Just make sure you wash your hands when you're done!  

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

This is another one of those issues where the often-unspoken subtext is whether one is an amateur luthier or a professional guitar builder. Amateurs can afford to do everything by hand (that they'll admit to...) because it's a hobby. Pros can't.

Having parts made on CNC routers or laser cut usually enhances the quality of that part.It's kind of like having the ultimate jig.That said,most parts are left at the rough stage so the handwork and fine details are left to finish.

When the day comes that a machine can carve a neck with all it's compound curves , sand it to perfection ,fret it,level and dress it,only then can you call it CNC made!

 

 

Hesh,
I was always wondering what those apes were attempting. Do you know if it was a 12 or 14 fret?

Be careful Bob those aren't apes

The first picture was taken at the 2006 Ft. Erie OLF gathering..........

And the second picture is of me in my shop making a nut and saddle for my latest guitar.......  Sorry, we probably should have put some clothes on.............

You should have had on the Pink Boxers! 

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Am I correct in my thinking that the use of CNC parts is much more common with steel string guitar makers? I haven't done too much research, but are builders of classical guitars, violins, and other stringed instruments using CNC'd parts also? Why aren't (if they aren't) these builders using it also? And also, the "problem" of the dictionary definition that Hesh gave is the implied higher quality of a "handmade" item. It is like the art/craft debate where there are value judgements implied with the words, i.e. handmade means good, not made by hand. if it looks like corn, and tastes like corn..... then it is probably genetically modified corn.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

[QUOTE=Brett Faust]

Having parts made on CNC routers or laser cut usually enhances the quality of that part.It's kind of like having the ultimate jig.That said,most parts are left at the rough stage so the handwork and fine details are left to finish.

When the day comes that a machine can carve a neck with all it's compound curves , sand it to perfection ,fret it,level and dress it,only then can you call it CNC made!

[/QUOTE]

With the exception of pounding the frets in, you can do every one of those operations on a Fadal (including polishing the frets after leveling them). They're just cheaper to do by hand, and the programming on some of them is quite difficult.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

[QUOTE=blegeyt] I haven't done too much research, but are builders of classical guitars, violins, and other stringed instruments using CNC'd parts also? Why aren't (if they aren't) these builders using it also? [/QUOTE]

I seem to recall hearing mention (from Al Carruth?) that a great number of classical instrument builders (by this I mean the arched ones) buy all their plates pre-roughed. Just imagine the time involved in taking the slag out of a cello top by hand...

I can't say anything about classical guitar builders, but a look at the base price for a perceived as good classical are much much higher than the prices for a perceived good steel string. Not as much need to improve efficiency if your base price is doubled on roughly the same amount of work.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services