Official Luthiers Forum!

I like the way Z-poxy fills compared to a water-based product, but the color is an issue.  Seems like you have to lightly sand this stuff otherwise you end up with a splotchy mess.  I had to take it down to bare wood all over - what a job!  Any tips on how to best use this stuff?

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

I like to take it down so the wood is sanded but the pores remain full.
It usually takes me two coats to fill the pores.
Rich,There are a lot of discussions and info. about this in the archives.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

I actually do 3 coats of zpoxy. The first is a heavy coat which is mostly sanded back off , leaving the posres filled as  Dave says. This coat aslo serves as a leveling coat. The second is to fill in and touch up anything that was missed on the first coat. It is lightly sanded to level everything. The third coat is mixed 50/50 with denatured alcohol and is mainly a color and polishing coat. After the third coat, sometimes it looks good enough to say it is a finish as most everything is shiney and level. Good preparation will make all the difference int he world hen you get around to putting your final finish on the guitar, which ever finish you choose.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Rich, how did you apply it? If you squeegee it off after applying, it seems to be pretty thin and uniform. (Many folks use an old credit card to get the excess off.) It does impart an amber color to the wood, which I like.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Yep I do much like my buddy Ken even though Dave is my buddy too....

The important thing about the final coat being a 50/50 mix is that it is just lightly wiped on to even out the color and pop the figure.  I wipe it on with a lint free cloth.  Epoxy does an excellent job of popping the figure.  This final wipe will even out the color where you have sanded through the epoxy.

Typically I use two full coats, sand back, and wipe with the 50/50 mixture and I am good to go.

But first you have to decide if you are a leave the epoxy in the pores only person who sands it back to bare wood except for the epoxy in the pores.  Or are you a leave a very thin film of epoxy on the guitar person for the figure popping benefit.  Both methods work fine.

Also to add to what my buddy... Steve said a very little epoxy goes a very long way.  I would venture to say that an entire back can be done with less than a tea spoon.

I usually work an approximately 6" X 6" area at once, drop on some epoxy, and squeegee it at 45 degrees to the grain in both directions also trying to "mash" it downward into the pores.  The excess that collects on Steve's credit card.... is dropped on the next spot that I intend to do.

The card is also held at approximately 45 degrees as you use it as a squeegee.  But again the real object here is not only to remove the excess from the surface but to also mash the crap into the pores at the same time and from multiple directions.

The more I do this the better I get and I think that it is possible to accomplish this in one coat if great care is taken.

Additionally I keep a rag, lint free, damp with denatured alcohol near by to wipe the epoxy build up on the bindings level.

Necks are a different story because much of the surface is curved.  Instead of using Steve's credit card I put on a latex glove, on my hand......, not my head, although I have done that too...., and use my finger to wipe it onto the neck, smooth it out, remove excess, etc.  This works great and I typically can do a neck in one coat with one latex covered finger.......  The head stock, since it is flat, I revert to using Steve's credit card....

Hope this helps.

"The excess that collects on Steve's credit card.."

...cause I know they are not good for anything else...

/this

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

I can relate

I have all of my extended family saving all of those fake credit cards they get as credit offers. I always have a fresh supply of them as needed to spread the zpoxy. 

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Reguards,

Ken H

Expired/depleted gift cards work well too.

After using a card twice, I bought a $3 squeegee at the hardware store. I
was there for a different project and thought I'd give it a try. The rubber
blade really pushed the filler down into the poors and left a vapor thin,
level coat on the guitar. One filling was all it took, and 0000 steel wool or
maroon scotchbright will get rid of any lingering artifacts left on the
surface in a minute or two.

It saved time and gave me superior results. Another method to think
about.

Thanks for the tips.  Next time I'll try the several coats and thin the third.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Grant Goltz gave me a tip that white vinegar is good for cleaning up uncured epoxy. It worked well for me on the Raka epoxy that Grant uses and recommends, and it has worked for cleanup of the generic hardware store variety as well. (I don't know if Z-Poxy has a similar chemistry or not, but I suspect it does.)

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Ricardo, All you need to do to be successful with Zpoxy is first make up a bout an ounce at a time. apply it with a squeegee working in small areas at a time. leaving only as little as you can on the surface. (we are filling pores not finishing the body.

Here is the most important thing to aid sand-ability. allow each application to fully cure prior to sanding back. This take at the minimum of 12 hours in warm dry weather and I really recommend 24 and 48 would be even better.

It make take 2-3 applications to fill porous woods

Once the pores are filled and the zpoxy cured I recommend sanding back to the wood leaving only the zpoxy in the pores then with a 60% alcohol 40% zpoxy mixture rag on just to color the wood evenly. allow to cure and lightly sand with 320p just to add a tooth to this film to except what ever sealer you use.

If your film is deep then you have added too much epoxy and sanding will be a chore with lots of paper loading. If when applying you remove all excess film then the sanding goes pretty quick and easy with little paper loading if fully cured and proportionally mixed properly.

I'm getting ready to do a neck with a Tru-oil finish. After the Z-poxy,should I seal with shellac or can I go straight to the Tru-oil?

No need to seal with Shellac so long as you leave a thin film of Z-Poxy on the neck.  The 50/50 wiped on coat that is discussed earlier in this thread will suffice nicely as a seal coat.

Michael,

When you sand back to the wood, do you have any problems with more pores being exposed? 

Not to answer for Mike, but there certainly is that danger.   However, I do my pore filling with z-poxy, and I do it like that. I like to have the minimum amount of epoxy on there, and I also want to avoid having to deal with color differences if I sand through to bare wood in subsequent leveling or polishing stages; the z-poxy has a slightly amber hue.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The key is just to the wood. I don't go for removing all the zpoxy on the surface. I just want to sand back to the wood level. This may and does leave some places that still have a faint coating of zpoxy but not any thickness to it. The wash or raged on 60% alcohol/40% zpoxy will then color every thing even.

Directly to your question; On some woods with very open pores it does happen from time to time, but not very often because as soon as I get to wood level I go no further.