Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=Todd Rose] How about a guitar with both a D-Tar UST and K&K minis (separately output signals, of course)?

Maybe the ultimate set up would include a third signal from a magnetic pickup as well...? Overkill? Too cumbersome?[/QUOTE]
You're getting close to (at least one of the setups) in one of Michael Gulezian's guitars.

Here's his setup: pickup combination

Gulezian is a very impressive player (IMO, one of the 5 best in the world), but is even more impressive as a composer. He blends a variety of musical genres and playing styles with a variety of fingerstyle techniques and attacks to convey an amazing array of emotional and musical content.

It probably sounds like I'm doing an advertisement for Michael Gulezian, but Todd's comment made me think that there are pro musicians out there that require more than any one pickup can deliver.

Now, if I wanted to do an advertisement for Michael Gulezian, it would be more like, "Don't miss an opportunity to see Michael Gulezian live!"

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Thanks for your input, Dennis. So, there's one player out there anyway who finds a combination like I suggested (UST, SBT, and magnetic pickup) useful.

David B. - you still out there? I'd be interested to know if you have any thoughts about this as a live sound engineer. Your post above was very informative and helpful. Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

The only problem I see is that the Dtar is on its own 18V system and the
K&K is passive -- but sounds best when used in conjunction with the K&K
preamp (there are some that have used the ParaDi with it and found it didn't
sound as good as with the K&K).

This is the kind of question I'd really like Rick to chime in on, and if I were in
the midst of such a requested install, talk to Dieter at K&K. My guess is that
you'd need two output jacks because the systems are so different. As Tony
mentioned, you can use the K&K UST in conjunction with their SBT without
any problems of impedence and the like.

Thanks for your input David.  It's been extremely helpful.  Have you worked with the PUTW "dynamic trio" that has the #54 SBT plus an under saddle pickup?
Terry

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Thanks, David. Yes, I'm imagining a guitar with two, or even three, separate output jacks. The idea would be to build an acoustic guitar that is set up to be amplified with the greatest possible versatility, using two or three different types of pickups, each one being the best of its kind (I know there will always be different opinions on which are the best; in pursuing this idea, I'd make my own call on that). Hence the suggested combination of a D-Tar UST with a K&K SBT, rather than simply using K&K for both.

BTW, do you have a favorite magnetic pickup for acoustic guitars?

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

David, that was a great response. Thank you. I was thinking that a totally
"natural" sound wouldn't quite work in my playing situation---
contemporary or alternative music in a small band.

My acoustic chain is B-Band UST into an Avalon U5. A T-Rex Replica
delay came in the mail last week, and I'm itching to try it with an acoustic.

These reviews of the K&K Mini really have me interested. I wish I had the
situation where it would make sense to try it out. I really like the B-Band
FWIW.     

I have personally played my guitars with the K&K mini in venues ranging from a small club with a 250 person capacity to Red Rocks Amphitheater with a capacity of around 9,500. I've never...not once...had an issue with feedback on stage. I can't say enough how happy I've been with the K&K minis and I've only used them bare bones with no EQs or filters between the strings and the D.I. box. I made sure I talked to all the monitor and FOH folks everywhere I played to make sure they were as happy with the sound as I was...and they were.
I played an acoustic for 75% of the set and an electric for the rest. It was mixed with a lead electric, bass, and drums.
It will certainly accent any percussive playing or scratching/ticking/etc. on the soundbox a bit more than a piezo, but that's hardly an issue for me. It never detracted from the result and it came in handy if I needed to beat the soundbox for effect.
I'm not making an argument AGAINST any pickup in particular or saying that the K&K mini is better than anything else, I'm only saying that I've never had an issue, its performed live like a champ, and in my experience the sound reinforcement people have been really happy with it and have not had to tweak anything to get the sound out of it they want or ride the faders/eqs to prevent feedback on it.
Very nice unit and the price is pretty tough to beat. Maybe there are better things on the market, but I just have not found the need to continue searching.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

J,

You probably had modest stage levels, at Red Rocks someone with a fully
parametric EQ on the monitor console, and these days probably a digital
one at that where you can really be specific about the errant frequency.
The EQ doesn't have to happen at the DI. DI stands for direct injection
and it basically an impedence matching device designed to get an input
up to line level to go into a mixing console. Some of them have EQ such
as the ParaDI, others like the Countryman, BSS Audio, or Radial which are
so common have nothing more than a pad and ground lift.

I don't have all the gear in the shop that I have at the theatre, but I can
tell you that you can get feedback very easily with just an amplifier.

I'm glad you didn't have any feedback, but the parameters that define
that experience aren't universal insofar as stage levels, guitar choice,
equipment, as well as basic setup issues like having a monitor aiming
slightly off axis. My point is that in your instance, you've had professional
gear and professional engineers, something that many folks don't have.

Like I said, I've used it on the big stages with full automation set up with the laptop and I've used it in small rooms with a mackie 24 channel. The caveat i guess, it that I take it easy on my own mix, sometimes taking a little less of myself for the sake of the stage mix, never use an amp with the guitar so I'm not bouncing monitors and amp sound, and have always been careful with my ears, so I'm not hard to mix for, and I pride myself on being easy going with the sound guys/gals. I like to consider myself more educated than most on how the sound travels, so maybe I'm an anomaly. I'm sure its not perfect for everyone, but it is for me.
Just one opinion. Grain of salt, take it or leave it, to each his own, etc., etc., etc.
Not an argument against anything at all, only FOR the K&K mini. The great thing is...its such an easy install and removal, it is easily replaceable by something else if it ISN'T for you.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

J,

I really like the K&K mini. For most of what I do for my own playing its fine.
But my experience as a builder and engineer, regardless of pickup is the
aforementioned problem of progear in consumer amplification and the
innevitable complaint about a pickup feeding back -- user error, not the
pickup.

--db