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Hello, all, and Happy New Year!

I just finished repairing a Martin Backpacker; the neck was broken off at the first fret.  The original tuners are Martins...and very heavy relative to this insrument (about 8 ounces). 

Does anyone have suggestions for lightweight tuners in say, the 4 ounce range?  I'm hoping for closed gear tuners; open gear tuners are pretty light, but, hey, the gears are exposed.  I've been through the major luthier supply catalogs, but all closed gear tuners are in the 1/2 pound range.  Thanks!

What do you have against open gear tuners?

I believe Sperzels are among the most light weight enclosed ones.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The lightest tuners that I have found, and I have been weighing them, were all open backs and open backs are FAR lighter then closed back tuners - often 100 grams lighter.

So far the lightest that I have found are Waverlys with wood buttons - in the 130 gram range (this includes all bushings and screws).

Grover open backs are second with metal buttons.

Just replacing the buttons with wooden or plastic ones will lighten any set of tuners (I think all buttons are brass). IME there is nothing lighter than a set of open-gear tuners with wood or ivoroid buttons. Otherwise a set of Gotoh minis with the amber plastic buttons is pretty light.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Kluson-type vintage tuners are an open-gear design with a light, stamped cover. Might be lighter.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanks for the feedback, folks.  To the first question:  "What's my problem with open tuners?"  Answer:  it's a Backpacker guitar.  I don't want underbrush or moon dust catching in the gears! 

In terms of open gear tuners in general, those stupid "press in" fittings don't do it for me.  I much prefer the threaded inserts used with closed tuners. 

I like Waverlys, but generally speaking the cost of tuners should not exceed the value of the instrument without tuners...in this case, the guitar costs about $200 brand new.  I paid $40 for mine (including, at no extra cost, the broken neck).  I paid about $140 for the last set of Waverlys I purchased.

Might there be a market for lightweight (~4 oz.) closed tuners?  Adding half a pound to the end of the fretboard would seem, well, silly if a well-balanced instrument is desired.  Any weight which contributes to sound is fine, but does the weight of the tuners contribute to sound?  

Somehow I feel this posting is filled with bad grammar...

 

 

 

Are the plastic bodied mini Schallers still available? Those with replacement plastic or wooden knobs would be about as light as you could get with closed tuners.

Why not just put a plastic bag on the peghead when you're out and about and not playing?   Kind of like a guitar condom...for your protection, don't you know...

Last time I checked, Sperzel Solid Pro (not the ones with the string locks) were the lightest closed tuner.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

And Sperzels really are semi-enclosed...

Yeah, they have that plastic disc in the back. Which helps with the weight, is perhaps a bit cheesy, but doesn't seem to cause any problems.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I had a customer in my shop recently, and one of the things we discussed was the weight of the guitar and especially the neck.

I placed a mahogany neck in his hands, and then a rosewood fingerboard. Next came a double action truss rod and finally a box of Gotoh tuners. You could see his eyes light up when he realized why guitar necks weigh so much.

I am on the same page wanting a light weight tuner, but I dont want plastic or cheap and unreliable tuners to go out on my guitars. I am especially interested in the carbon fiber neck inserts as a replacement for a truss rod also.  The only problems I can see is the question of how the weight of all of that hardware affects the overall sound and volume of the guitar.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Per the tech staff at Stew-Mac, the buttons on the open-backed Grovers are not replaceable.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

 Have you seen the Hipshot guitar tuners?

 I have found in general that a light tuner like Gotoh Kluson replacements enhance the top end giving a more open woody sound .Die cast tuners seem to give a more midrange focused tone.At least that is what happens with my guitars.

Moon Dust?

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

I just took some tuners and weighed them for you all. Sperzels and Gotohs.

First are Sperzel closed back with small button. They are 159g, 5.6 oz



Next, Sperzel open back tuners with small button. They are 155g, 5.4 oz



Next, Gotoh 510's, gold with black contemporary button. 201g, 7.1 oz. Really nice tuner but on the heavy side.



Next, Gotoh open back with steel buttons and slothead posts. 156g, 5.5 oz



Next, the set I am putting on my ES335, Gotoh Kluson style. 161g, 5.6 oz



Gotoh open back with small plastic knobs and paddle head posts would be lighter yet by a few grams. And 3 on a plate might be a bit lighter still....I should weigh them one day!

Shane

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Canada

Regarding moon dust...

A Martin Backpacker was taken on one of the early Apollo space missions.  True to NASA policy, I'm confident that the effect of moon dust on the instrument was studied in detail...

When my wife saw the instrument, she suggested I fashion the headstock in the shape of a handle on a paddle as used for a canoe.  I suspect she was alluding to my lack of playing skills and the need for a more practical use for the guitar. 

For those who have not seen this guitar (although mine is serial number 149,XXX), I'll post pictures later this week.  Plus, I'm rather proud of my repair job. 

 

I wouldn't call those Sperzel buttons 'small'.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

just out of curosity, have any of you had customers balk at the idea of open back tuners? If I were looking at guitars in a music store, I would immediately bypass any guitar with open back tuners as being "cheap". They may work for a backpacker guitar or a friday night beater guitar, but I wouldnt put them on a guitar I wanted to get top dollar for.

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Reguards,

Ken H

My customers would balk at closed back tuners.....

They only offer two button styles Howard. The other is a Les Paul style which is larger. These Sperzels are US made from aluminum and have some neat features, like you can get them in graduated posts. Although you can Gotoh with posts that are height adjustable.

Anyway, size is relative....I think I better leave that one alone!!

Shane

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Canada

[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars] just out of curosity, have any of you had customers balk at the idea of open back tuners? If I were looking at guitars in a music store, I would immediately bypass any guitar with open back tuners as being "cheap". They may work for a backpacker guitar or a friday night beater guitar, but I wouldnt put them on a guitar I wanted to get top dollar for.[/QUOTE]

I guess this means you don't like Waverlies? Lots of high end guitars come standard with open back tuners. Your idea of cheap sure doesn't match mine.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Shane, I've been using Sperzels for years. they have about 6 different button styles. The one I use is smaller than either the one you showed or the Les Paul/Kluson style. I think it's a #6.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks Howard,

I guess I need to talk with them!

Shane

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Canada

How 'bout those really cheap open-backed Rodgers tuners? Now that's low rent for you...

[QUOTE=Rick Turner]How 'bout those really cheap open-backed Rodgers tuners? Now that's low rent for you...[/QUOTE]

If you don't get your tongue out of your cheek, it may get stuck there!

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Waddy

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