Official Luthiers Forum!

I hope there are people like me who check this forum, looking to see if someone might have posted something pertaining to "Reso" enthusiasts. Can we revive this area of the OLF?
Gary Dusina's papers on building resophonic guitars has been helpful to a lot of us. I know Don Williams did a pictorial on his build some time back. J.D. Myers has lent advise here. Dan Brooks from B&B, Louisiana Grey, Mike Dotson and others, have all posted here. Heck lap steel guitars could be here also(not trying to change this form..just suggestion).
Was hoping we could get this going again by maybe say...going through a build. Or talking about how you build. I know that Dan B played w/The Rarly Herd. Having your perspetive on how a musician builds his own, what he's looking for, etc. I've been playing reso's for about 30 years and trying to dupicate a sound is a science. And I gotta say, I'm still working on my first one!
There's arguments on maple sound wells, and open sound wells. Seems most prefer the open. I've been playing w/maple sound well on the guitar I have now. How about showing how a maple sound well is made, or the open sound system. I've seen different apporaches on all of them.
I know a lot of the info on regular acoustic guitar building can be used w/the resophonic guitar. But it's still a different animal. When I first found this site, my primary reason was for the Official Resonator Forum. Most of us(reso enthusiasts)get a "ton" of info from the Main Discussion area such as, bending sides, neck attachment etc. But stuff like bracing a top or setting up a Dobro(it's still a Dobro to me) is not like anything else.
Well, these are just a few thoughts. I'm a musician and a "wanna be" builder only, and someone who'd like to see a little more here. Hope some of you chime in.

Dave

Hey Dave, I check in occasionally and wish it were more active too.
I haven't built a reso for a few months. Been doing lapsteels and weird
plastic guitar projects.

Yes,I wish we could revive the Reso-forum! I plan on building
one sometime and it was interesting reading.

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

I also sign in from time to time to check out the Reso-Form and wish there was more info. I have not built one but would like to some day and I am looking for all the info I can find to suck up like a sponge.
Maybe someday I can even have something to share, I hope.
Jay

Man, I'm glad there have been a few responses. PM'd Lance about this forum and he said to spread the word about it so I'll start. Lap steels are ok here too.
Hey Mike-I know you do some awesome lap steels. How about some of your pics?
Dave

I have an orphaned (repaired) back & side set that had its top
trashed...just today the thought occurred to me....a small still voice
wafting on the cusp of a breeze...



resonator...

I'm really new at building and have just started my first Dread for jamming with our local Bluegrass club.  Several players in our club play Res/Dobro guitars and I just LOVE the sound.

If this forum section comes to life I would love to build a resonator this fall or maybe start one sooner so I'm not waiting for glue to dry on the Dread.

My first step will be to get a set of plans.  Any recommendations for a great set of plans?


BTW...  Wow.  I just checked out the Library section of our Bluegrass club and they have 31 Dobro DVD/Video instuctional items that I can book out for a month at a time.  Those DVD instructional video's are like having a teacher right in the room with you.  Way Cool!

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Rick Hubka
Chemainus BC Canada

I''m planning to build a reso or two, even have all the parts for a tri-cone,
but haven't gotten the time set aside yet...
I have restored 3 e-bay basket cases (one metal tri-cone and two wood
body single cones) that I have pics of. When I get my website uploading
worked out I'll put together a pictorial of the restorations.
-C

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

It's really a matter of finding the time and besides, like Mike, I've been really busy but I haven't been doing a lot of reso building lately.

I would suggest that probably the easiest way to get this going again would be for someone to ask a question about the details (maybe even if you think you know the answer already). It's much easier to answer about a specific topic than it is to describe a guitar build from scratch. In the past I've tried to document builds properly but I always start out being really thorough and then get carried away halfway through and forget to take photographs. Also. although I've been building a while now I certainly don't know much more than the way I do it, which isn't the same as the way someone else would do it, so I'm reluctant to post my own stuff and say this is how it should be done.

In answer to Rick's question, I think the Beard dobro plans are good if you want to build a soundwell-type instrument with the more traditional (Josh-type) sound. I'm not aware of any support post & baffle plans (for the Ickes kind of sound) but Gary Dusina's articles on Reso-nation are very thorough.

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

Thanks Pete for gettin' in here. I figure most guys are busy and don't get on this computer thing all the time.
I'm w/you as far as addressing a specific topic-and that's really what my original note was for, although looking at it, it really didn't say that did it.
Yea Rick, I got my plans from Paul Beard. The one I'm on, will have an open soundwell design w/no baffle. The plans give you dimenstions but aren't really detailed--I think you can change what you want. Pete's right as far as open sound well. Gary Dusina's articles on the Resonation has the post and baffle design. Beard's also got a kit w/all the parts to build one too. I believe it's a Birch plywood body w/Mahogany neck.
Chas, a pictorial on a rebuild would be a great idea.
Dave

Okay, don't know much about Resonators, educate me.

A Dobro is a resonator correct?

What about an all metal Resophonic, that's a resonator too right?

I think of Dobro's as Acoustic Guitars with Hubcaps in the middle.

Didn't really consider it much as an instrument until I heard the song Red Rag Top on the radio. Wow, what a cool track highlighting this instrument. I became a believer at that moment.

Then I saw Jerry Douglas playing with Allison Kraus and Union Station in Little Rock Arkansas. He was giving that guitar a workout.

Okay, what about Weissborns it's a lap style instrument as is a Hawaiian Lap steel, so are those two resonators?
Should this forum be renamed? Is there one name that describes all slide played type guitar instruments?

That's all I can think of at the moment. First timer in here....

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Ah, the "meaning of life" question ...

The term "resonator guitar" is used to describe a guitar, with a square or round neck, with a wooden or metal body, which has a resonating aluminium cone (or cones) inside it, underneath the shiny metal bit that you can see, which is called the coverplate. So a Weissenborn is not a resonator guitar, nor are any of the other odd devices that have appeared over the years using internal wooden soundboards, baffles and so on - some of the Macaferris spring to mind.

There are 3 different cone structures in common use:
1) the biscuit bridge cone, which is shaped like a volcano and has the bridge set into a wooden circle (or "biscuit") that sits on its flat top
2) the spider bridge cone, which has a cone with a section like a W, with the bridge set in an eight legged "spider" on top
3) the tricone, which has 3 smaller cones with the bridge in a T shaped piece of aluminium which rests on top of all of them.

The term "dobro" is usually used these days to refer to a square necked spider bridge instrument played lap-style. "Dobro" with a capital D has been copyrighted by the Gibson company and every so often they will have a go at anyone else using the term to describe their own instruments. They do this despite the fact that they have neglected the Dobro brand for many years and a Gibson Dobro would definitely not be the instrument of choice for most players. There isn't really a satisfactory short term for biscuit bridge instruments - you could describe them as National-style, after the original makers, but again you have to be careful with the description because National has been revived as a brand and they are producing these instruments themselves to a high standard.

Music stores on the other hand, which are normally staffed by people who have no understanding of these instruments whatsoever, have a habit of calling both styles a "dobro".

As well as conventional guitars there are also tenor guitars, banjos, mandolins and ukuleles with resonating cones and it would be nice to see some of those being discussed here too. So far I've only ventured down that path as far as building a mandolin, but one day ...

Personally speaking I'd prefer this section of the forum to remain as resonator guitars only - i.e. (because we're luthiers) to be defined by the method of construction, not the style of playing.

As far as playing goes I think everyone, even other great dobro players, acknowledges that Jerry is the best. On the other hand, given that the instrument is only a little over 70 years old there's plenty of time for more than one genius of the dobro to emerge (but it won't be me). If you like a jazzy style then check out Rob Ickes, particularly the "Three Ring Circle" album.

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Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

Thanks Peter.

Isle of Man, that's out in the middle of nowhere. I see you get around though on that Triumph.

Appreciate the informative answer. Enjoyed the tour of your site too.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Hi, everybody.

I'd appreciate it if somebody could grab the dimensions (ie thickness, height) of a 'typical' wood biscuit-type bridge and post them for me. Is the 'saddle' typically a different material (bone?ebony?) than the wood part?
I'm trying to get the neck angle worked out on my reso project, and I don't want to wait for the delivery of a commercial biscuit.
Besides, I'm cheap, and would rather make my own.

Thanks

John

Hi John,

The traditional biscuit is all maple, including the saddle. Paul Beard sells what he calls a "contemporary" biscuit, which has an ebony cap on the saddle. Paul Norman makes his from carbon fibre, which gives a very thin biscuit which, in my experience, gives more sustain than a wooden one.

Commercially bought saddles always come oversize and have to be cut down, because the height will vary depending on how deep the soundwell is, so there isn't much point in giving you that measurement.

The critical measurement for the neck angle is the size of the gap between the top of the coverplate and the bottom of the handrest. Neck angle is typically in the region of 4 degrees - i.e. more than on a regular acoustic. That is something that some of the Chinese factories have yet to figure out, and their angles are often too shallow resulting in either an excessively high action or not enough break angle over the bridge. Usually setting the saddle height is one of the last things you will do after the guitar has been strung up with the coverplate off.

Putting my digital calipers on a National biscuit bridge I make the biscuit diameter to be 60mm, biscuit thickness 6mm, bridge thickness (i.e. depth, not height) 3 1/2 mm. The Chinese tend to make the biscuit slightly thinner and with a larger diameter (that's not good - more chance for the biscuit to touch the coverplate, which produces a lot of unpleasant noise).

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

Thanks, Pete. I appreciate the help!

Should I just try to get the strings to pass through the 'middle of the gap' between the handrest (I assume this is the chrome 'strap' that covers the strings at the bridge area?) and the coverplate? This would mean that the plane of the fingerboard would be 'grazing' the coverplate?

Also, what is a 'typical' string height at the 12th fret for a reso?- I know that it is 'higher than normal' but.....

Cheers

John

There's no particular constructional reason why the action has to be higher on a reso, it's just that they are often used for playing slide and if you use a heavy slide for tone then having the action a tad higher makes for less fret rattle. If you're only going to play fingerstyle then the action can be as low as any other kind of guitar. A good compromise action is about 3 to 3.5 mm on the bass side, 2.5 to 3 on the treble. The cone will compress under string tension so the final setting of the action has to be done with the guitar strung up and brought to pitch. I usually do it as the last thing before the coverplate goes on and because it's trial and error you'll probably have to have several goes at taking the strings on and off so do it with a cheap set because it will kill them pretty quickly.

I'd aim to get the strings about 3mm below the front edge of the handrest so there's a reasonable break angle over the bridge to the tailpiece. Certainly aim for more than halfway up the gap. The plane of the fretted fingerboard will be a couple of millimetres above the coverplate.

It's difficult to be exact because the dimensions of the hardware will vary depending on where it is sourced from, and this includes the height and dome of the coverplate, which will be different depending on the type. As a piece of general advice for anyone contemplating building a resonator instrument, you need to have all the parts you require before you commit yourself to the geometry of how it will all fit together.

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

Thanks, Pete.
I've got this printed out- hopefully the next thing you hear from me will be accompanied by some pics of the finished guitar.

Cheers

John

Edit: Nevermind, this forum still doesn't like Macs. Can't get the url to wrap
correctly.

[QUOTE=Mike Dotson] Edit: Nevermind, this forum still doesn't like Macs. Can't get the url to wrap
correctly. [/QUOTE]

Mike-
I'm not sure this is a Mac issue- I've seen some comments that Safari is the problem, and I know that some OLFers use Firefox on their Macs.
I'm not using a Mac (I'm on the other side of that economic divide), so can't help further- I often see spaces inserted in URLs that have been pasted into messages, and I doubt that all of these are from Mac users.
Does the 'Link' button (next to underline) not work for you?

Keep tryin! durn computers....

John

Dunno. It never worked in the 'bad old days' of an old Mac running Explorer
either.
I'll try the linkage button, I was doing it manually before.

Edit: Nope, still won't take. Try just pasting it, just remember to take out the
space.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?
fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=26184484

Baritone resonator-pretty cool.
Thanks, Mike.
Mike Dotson Link

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual &VideoID=26184484

Funny things, computers- even though it 'looks' like a space, it's a CR (carriage return-new line). So, Mike, when I try to copy the whole URL from your posting and then paste into the 'Link' window, only the first part is pasted. When I edited the URL into a single line in Word/Wordpad, it pasted into the 'Link" window fine.
It's stuff like this that really makes me keen to try (another) new operating system -NOT. No matter whether it's Mac or Vista, etc....AWk!

Cheers

John

Thanks for the help John. I haven't had this kind of problem with any other
site so I doubt I'll switch browsers over it either.

Anyhoo, it's not a new guitar, just a recent (and fairly crappy) clip done in
the store. Just trying to get some stuff happening in here.