Official Luthiers Forum!

Why does LMI send out mahagony bracing for the back instead of Spruce. I just glued up the back with it. Does it effect the sound or is it a weight issue. This is my first one(im obsessed now). How long does it typically take for a master,,, just wondering.   Hope everyone had a happy New year!!!

Probably because it is good back brace stock.  I'll be bracing my back with it.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

And I use carbon fiber topped spruce.   'Cause I like it...

Don't forget Spanish Cedar..........smells great too......

I've used full height 19x9mm spruce on my latest and it sure made a tough back. Not much ring to it. I am currently shaving most of it off through the soundhole. I am probably throwing away a good deal of projection but this geetar will never see a stage or large setting, she has to sing to *me* 

_________________
Build log

I have used Mahogany for bracing. I like the look of it, but it does add to the weight of the guitar. It makes a good stiff brace for the back.

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

I cannot believe nobody jumped on the question of how long until you're a "Master" at the guitar-building craft. OK, I'll bite.

One does not climb up to the level of a Master. One is pushed up by others in the craft. You will be a Master when everybody else says you are, and not before. And by the time everyone else says you are, you'll be too talented, and too humble, to accept that kind of praise. Either that, or you'll be called

So the answer is: never.

Bill

_________________
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Bill, never? That's a long time.

We master stuff in life all the time.

Like standing and walking, but we still fall down.

Like riding a bicycle, without getting grass stains on the knees of our jeans.

And in other endeavors such as playing piano, guitar, or cello. Truth is with a mastery of any skill, there is always going to be someone better than you. Doesn't mean you haven't "mastered" the medium.

So, yes, I believe right here on this forum there are some master guitarmakers among us. I agree with your premise a little. A great player will pick up one of our guitars and he'll be the judge of our skill.

Even Stradivari had his duds, with all his skill he produced the occasional sleeper.

Becoming a master is more perspiration than inspiration, but you need both. My work has made me sick, I have a persistent cough due to wood dust in my shop. So, on my way to becoming a master guitarmaker, I've had to master dust eradication in the process.

All of us have the potential of mastering the craft. Some will rise to greatness, if they are successful, due to their enthusiasm and doggedness. Others will get lucky, right place right time sort of thing, plus they have good building chops too. Others with equivalent skills will fade away.

Age matters too. The clock is ticking for many of us, so you young builders, hang in there, keep at it, never give up, stand on the shoulders of those you respect and admire, won't hurt a thing.

Bill, there is even hope for you and I.....   

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

"Let me introduce to you Mr. and Mrs. Bates and their young son Master ....."

Back braces, Back braces......Is that not the topic????

Weight is the only issue, from what I have read here.  Just trying to get this back on topic..... pun intended!

Welcome to the OLF Ikewil! 

_________________
Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Ike, discussions of Master and Luthier, and "when will I become one?", are ire raising topics, and should be avoided.  You might check the archives for some of the threads that became somewhat heated. 

Personally, I just try to remember what my Grandmama told me, "You are what you eat!"  That seems to keep me from worrying about what people will call me.  How do they know what I eat.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Personally, I like Adirondack for braces.   

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

When enough of your peers consider you a Master luthier, it is then that you become one,,, IMHO...
very rarely does the self proclamation of such things mean anything,...
with respect to such designations...
Cheers
Charlie

The question was "how long does it take for a master [to complete a guitar]?", not "when will I be a master?".

Perhaps "master" wasn't the best choice of word for the original poster but nonetheless I think it was a valid question for a beginner to ask; basically how long does it take for someone well-versed in the craft to complete a guitar?

I suspect the answer begins with "depends..." and ends with "...but generally speaking between x and y months".

_________________
Richard
http://www.guitarmaker.com

yes, a better phrasing of the question...  if i have the desired woods in house for a plain, unadorned instrument, i.e., no cutaway or optional inlays, just standard logo and dots, unbound fingerboard and headstock, standard tuners, it usually takes me around 40 - 50 hrs working time, but this is usually spread over a minimum of 6-7 weeks to allow for lacquer to cure. it can be longer depending on any changes the client orders during construction, the urgency of the repair queue in the shop, how my mood and motivation is, the need to order in non standard parts or woods, or custom inlays which alone can easily increase that time by a factor of 2 or more.

once the instrument is complete, i like to keep it in the shop for an additional couple of weeks before releasing it to the client, just to let it settle a bit.

However long it takes for you to make every mistake, then master the art of never making any of them again.

Since we are not in a trade guild that sets pay scales based off of ranks such as apprentice, journeyman and master, I feel the term or rank of Master is a handle that one can never hang around their own neck. It is an honorary term to be used in reference to an individual ONLY!!!!! by that individuals peers.

To strive to achieve MASTERY of one's craft is a noble pursuit. To strive to achieve the tile of MASTER is vanity.

But here is a Master Luthier:

http://www.zagerguitar.com/index.php?event=public.store.guit ars.list

Says so right on his website...

Opps I miss read it as well

Lets change that to how does it take an experienced luthier/builder to complete a guitar?

I would say the average build time for well crafted guitars is around 60-100 man hours. Note I said average. Some are good at cranking them out and jigged up to shorten some processes

Master and Luthier, all in one package?  Wonder what he ate when he was growing up?

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

It depends greatly on the builder, I can say that for certain. I know for a fact that, using all manual tools (no CNC), I can pop out an equally complex electric guitar in 1/3 the time it takes the best electric builder I know of to do it.

That says nothing to the quality of the product, though it does say something about hourly wages :)

Kevin Ryan has a really efficient shop, where as many of the other builders at that level are putting out as low as 1/10 the instruments he is in a year (in fairness, he has Bob there with him, but still...and the Fadal doesn't save him -that- much time compared to his jigs and skills). The speed of the work and the quality are independent variables.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

My Kohno 30 has mahagony or Spanish Cedar back braces. It's a very expensive guitar. I guess each builder decides how to use the wood to suit his methods.

I've found that when people refer to themselves as 'masters' they need to be avoided at all costs....