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Anyone use fish glue for joining the top?
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

I believe Mike Collins told me he has. I was planing to test very soon. All my work with it so far would lead me to believe it no more susceptible to reasonable high humidity than titebond.

I use it; that or hot hide glue. They work equally as far as I can tell.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Yep, fish or HHG only choices really for joints on the top.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

HHG is faster.

J.,
I just used it for the first time on a little bowed psaltery I'm building. I used it on cedar, it works great. Do you have some of that Norlands fish glue from the CO luthiers transaction in 2005?

Rick, it is only faster if you already have your HHG sitting in your pot already heated. But if you don't have everything setup, the Fish glue is faster since you can use it at room temperature.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

I think that Rick was referring to the cure time of HHG but I can't be sure.

FG would be excellent for jointing but I have not tried it favoring HHG.  HHG has the ability to draw the two halves together too, even though you still should be clamping them, and FG or Titebond can't do this.

My choices for joining plates are in this order:

1)  HHG

2)  FG

3)  Titebond/LMI white

I'm certainly no expert, and I bow to Colin, Arnt, and others on this, but from what I have read, Fish Glue has exactly the same drying properties that HHG has relative to sucking the joint together.  The primary difference being only the heat.  They are both collagen glues, just from different sources.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Its the Lee Valley fish glue. Its worked very well on other joints so far.
My HHG skills on larger/longer joints is getting better, but my confidence with the fish glue is much much higher.
I'm sure Rick was talking about cure time. I know this stuff needs to be clamped for at least 12 hours, and from what I've been told, 24 hours isn't out of the question.
No ammount of heating and mixing could take that long.
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=Hesh] HHG has the ability to draw the two halves together too, even though you still should be clamping them, and FG or Titebond can't do this.My choices for joining plates are in this order:1)  HHG2)  FG3)  Titebond/LMI white
[/QUOTE]

Hesh, Fish works just the same as HHG and draws the joint together as it dries.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

OK I stand corrected.  Where it came from was this series of posts that happened a couple of days ago and the thread ended, for now, after the last post.  This led me to believe that the clamp effect is exclusive to HHG.

Sorry that came out so small and difficult to read.......

I used it on a few on my test/practice tops.  Lee Valley brand.  It seemed easier than HHG to me at the time as it isnt as runny and applied a bit more like white.  I didnt try doing a destructive test on it, but did do a bit of flexing to see how she held.  My Hold Heat pot was also too hot at the time for HHG.  Now that I have the temp on my pot corrected, I'll have to give HHG another shot.

The few plates I've joined in the past few years have been with fish glue. Rub joint, no clamps, no problems on spruce, mahogany or koa that I've done.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

 I an confused  , one post says you need to have fish glue clamped for  12 hours  and another  says    no clamps  , obviously I am missing something  ... Jody

It's a slow curing glue, but a very rapid initial tack. Most applications I leave clamped overnight with fish glue. A soundboard that has been perfectly joined however should be relatively stress-free. Bead of glue, rub the boards together until it grabs, and it grabs quite well. If you tried to flex it five minutes later it would probably pop right apart, but if you leave it unstressed it will be just fine. Any rub joint really has to be a perfect joint though.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

  David , thanks for taking the time to eplain the difference !  Jody 

J.,
I clamped mine for 1 hour, and it was just fine. I would wait at least 4 hours before flexing or scraping, but you can clamp just fine for an hour and take it out. But then again, I'm no expert, just my limited experience.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

This draw together thing...maybe works with paper thin veneers. It's not going to fix poor jointing work or poor clamping of thick stock! 

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Build log

I've used it on tops as well, cedar, redwood and spruce.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

[QUOTE=Hesh]Sorry that came out so small and difficult to read....... [/QUOTE]

Gosh Hesh, I read it just fine!......lol

 

I love Hot Hide Glue, I've been using it for darn near 20 years.  I figure if ole Antonius chose it instead of Titebond then I'm gonna use it too.   Besides, it has a half-life of forever.

Though fish glue was used and heartily recommended at the Romanillos course, Jose' did not prefer it over Titebond for joining spruce. He felt that the glue line was more visible with fish glue and less so with Titebond.

I can get virtually invisible glue lines joining tops with HHG with the sprung tape method.   No clamps, no jigs, no problems, and I can just set up and glue 20 or 30 tops in a run.

Clamp time for fish glue varies greatly, from what I can tell. I tested some stressed joints (2 pieces of 1/4" x 1/4" spruce bent into my 15' radius form) and there is absolutely no creep several years later after as little as 15 minutes clamp time. Warm temp, 45% humidity.

The 12 hours might be true for gluing to oily or non-porous wood. But spruce on spruce is quick. It's easy to do a few tests.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com