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Does anyone know where I can purchase the Sloane fret measuring ruler. The rule which measures the martin/Gibson scales?
It seems that StewMac has discontinued them??
Thanks, Walter

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Thanks Lance..But Stewmac has Discontinued selling them??
Now what??

Thats odd - I did'nt see that until I went back and looked.
I cant believe theres no market for them? I dont know where else to find them, but ill look.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Walter, the Ibex rule is available from a dealer on eBay. I'm betting it is exactly the same. Ibex Fret Ruler

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

... or get it at International Luthier's Supply for $17.50

BruceH

Thanks Don and Bruce for the info for the Ibex rulers.
I appreciate it!!
Walter

The fret rule and many of the other Ibex tools are made by Metropolitan
Music in Stowe, Vermont. They have a website, finally, at
www.metmusic.com.

Walter,
just a point...I noticed that the "fret rule" uses 17.835 as it's divisor for setting fret distance. The standard equal temperment is 17.817 (I believe). I don't know how this will affect you if you are also laying out your frets using the rule ( obviously it will). I assume you are using it basically to get a saddle slot location. Just thought you would like to know. perhaps others will chime in...

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Thanks Dave!!
I appreciate your info.
Walter

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Walter,
just a point...I noticed that the "fret rule" uses 17.835 as it's divisor for setting fret distance. The standard equal temperment is 17.817 (I believe). I don't know how this will affect you if you are also laying out your frets using the rule ( obviously it will). I assume you are using it basically to get a saddle slot location. Just thought you would like to know. perhaps others will chime in...[/QUOTE]

This has been a HUGE debate in lutherie magazines. It's been proven mathematically by several experts that 17.817 is the correct formula for equal temperament.   It's the one that puts the 12th fret at the halfway point in the scale. However, many people, including Lance, use the Sloane rule, with apparent success. Comments?

Hey, I am not knocking the ruler. I have two of them ( how I got two is long story) but I don't use them for either saddle location or fret placement. I just let them hang on the wall cause they look cool. People come into the shop and I say..,"looky here...Ibex fret rule...formaly sold by Stewmac, but no longer!...". They all say "wow" and then leave.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I am kidding of course! They don't realy say "wow". But I bet...No, I know...they are all thinking that ( cause that's what I think everytime I look at it)!!!! Dave-SKG38554.5145949074

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Walter,
just a point...I noticed that the "fret rule" uses 17.835 as it's divisor for setting fret distance. The standard equal temperment is 17.817 (I believe). I don't know how this will affect you if you are also laying out your frets using the rule ( obviously it will). I assume you are using it basically to get a saddle slot location. Just thought you would like to know. perhaps others will chime in...[/QUOTE]

This has been a HUGE debate in lutherie magazines. It's been proven mathematically by several experts that 17.817 is the correct formula for equal temperament.   It's the one that puts the 12th fret at the halfway point in the scale. However, many people, including Lance, use the Sloane rule, with apparent success. Comments?[/QUOTE]

There's also 12 of root 2 as well, if you take something like fret calc and put in a scale and have it spit out 64's for the measurement 17.835 and 17.817 you'll see there are minor differences and that 17.817 and 12R2 are just about the same. Unless you have a CNC machine, or a REALLY long micrometer I find that 64ths is good enough that I can't tell the difference. For the fanned I just use 12R2 and then do a little compensation at the nut (bring it in almost 1/32) and they play in tune all the way down (or at least to our ears).

I found the Sloane ruler to be right on the money when I checked it against my SM templates for cutting slots and that the compensation on the ruler is spot on as well. I'm playing with an old program right now that calcs out the compensation for a scale along with the fret positions, so far it seems to be pretty close and I think I'm going to switch to it for the fanned frets..

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Does anyone have a realy cool fret calc program. I had one that did all sorts of things...baked bread, fixed your car...etc...I gave a copy to some OLFr's about two years ago. My computer caught a bad virus and my disk got wiped. So went the program. Don W. were you one of the ones I sent a copy to? If anyone has a Copy I sure would appreciate it. TIA

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

   I've used both the Sloane rule and a rule that I cut myself on a CNC machine that gives me my proprietary scale lengths. The Sloane rule places the saddle with its compensation right where it needs to be for proper intonation. My own scale works just as well, but doesn't have all of the additional overlapping scales on it. Just one scale down each edge and the saddle placement reference at each end. I never use them for board slotting, but have a fret slot saw that cuts all 20 or 22 at one time and in one pass with 3 inch diameter carbide blades. The arbor spacers on that saw are machined to within .0002" or two ten thousandths of an inch to provide proper placement of the .024" carbide blades for each slot and the nut end of the board. My scales are more for reference and for saddle placement.

   We're playing an instrument with one of the most inherently flawed temperments of all so we need to make some accommodation for it by taking as much time and care as possible to place things accurately. I've had lots of comments made over the years about the intonation quality of my guitars and I credit that time investment for them. i never cut my saddle slot in a bridge before the bridge is actually on the top of the guitar. the bridges is carefully placed and glued and then a special fixture that I made is used to locate and cut the slot in the exact location necessary. I still like a .093" or 3/32" saddle thickness too, so I have to be sure it's there in order to achieve adequate intonation through the compensation lands cut into the top edge of the saddle itself.

   I did have a single complaint about an ontonation problem on a guitar. It came after the owner had the guitar for a year and had already offered compliments on the great intonation earlier. His complaint came after he had the nut slots modified to a point where the strings were exiting contact with it well behind the front edge. I offered to look at the guitar and correct the problem, but he refused to send it back for a free set up. I heard later from the guy that finally did the new set up that nut had been altered.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Dave B,Check your email for a couple of programs.

[QUOTE=Keith M] Dave B,Check your email for a couple of programs.[/QUOTE]

What!!!! Your not going to share

I've seen a number of them, I like FretCalc the best but I also have this old DOS program that I use and it calcs compensation and seems to be pretty accurate.

I'd love to see something like fret calc do compensation as well, especially for those of us doing fanned frets.

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Paul it is the same dos program that I sent to you back in Jan. If anyone else wants it PM me and I'll send it out.

Also:http://fly.shonan.as/~flyman/Ukulele/English/

http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/tips/C_LAYOUT.HTM


http://www.fretfind.ekips.org/original_tools/newFretfind.php

And http://www.fretfind.ekips.org/2d/nonparallel.php

Hey folks!
We're replacing the Sloane rule with 3 new Stewart-MacDonald fret rules.
(The Sloane is a good rule, but some folks find it hard to read.)
These 3 new rulers each have 4 clearly marked scales. Between them, they have a dozen different fret scales. They'll be sold separately or as a group, and will be available very soon.
We also now have a free fret scale calculator available on our website. http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator/
E.Coleman38567.4173263889

erick

wecome! good to see another major vendor representative visit the forum with new product news.

Welcome to the OLF, I'll be sure and watch for them. Glad to have you join us.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Erick and Stewart McDonald, Welcome to the OLF and thanks for clearing that up.

Ill be checking into your new rules!

LanceK

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Welcome Eric! Please keep us up to date with those new rules. For sure I will want a set! It was nice to finally meet you (at ASIA).

Word to the wise...when SM comes out with new stuff...buy it...it's always a great tool or jig and sometimes ( like the Floyd Rose Nut jig and the diamond impreagnated filing block ) they come and only stay for a while. SO BUY IT NOW WHILE YOU CAN!!!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Dave, I'm guilty of buying every tool I can afford from Stewmac! Specialty tools rock!

Example, on my last guitar I installed a Stewmac end pin that screws into the butt wedge, I had a HECK of a time getting a drill bit just the right size for the hole, I ended up using my fingers to screw in the end pin it worked but not with out pain! I was browsing SM's site the other day and guess what I find, The matching drill bit and a tap for there end pins! PERFECT!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com