Official Luthiers Forum!

I've just come back from Ervin Somogyi's voicing class and thought I would post a little about my experience.

For starters I learned a ton from Ervin. Ervin has spend decades with this obsession, and he is filled with insight and experience that has helped me to think about the guitar in a way I never would have on my own. As well, there are a lot of things that I knew already (or should have known if I'd thought about it) that somehow become much more tangible when you spend time talking it through.

Besides the theoretical stuff, we had the opportunity to go through many pieces of wood and guitars, tapping, flexing and comparing. Being able to do that side by side with someone like Ervin really gives you an understanding of the wood that you couldn't get on your own.

The other aspect of the class is the "immersion". You get to spend 7 days with a bunch of wood nuts. When class is over, it's out for dinner and a beer and more talk about techniques, suppliers and theory. What a great time! Thanks to the other students who shared this experience with me, you were a great group.

One final thought on this is that anyone considering it in the future should realise you don't go down there to get a formula for building guitars, and you will need to put something in to get something out. For instance, I've been back home more than a week and I still haven't decided on the bracing pattern for my next build. I can say however, that the pattern will be designed with a sound in mind rather than just trying something to see what happens.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Congrats David and thanks for the great report!!!!

The one thing that I never fail to notice from returning Somogyi students is that they are now doing a lot of thinking and rethinking about what they do and what they now want to to do.

Great stuff!!!

That alone probably made the class worth it. Awesome, Dave.

I am glad you liked the course. Wasn't it fun and enlightening!!!!
It give you the knowledge to allow you to make predictable changes and direction it the
design of your guitars.

Are we about to stir up some controversy???????

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

It doesn't need to be controversial as long as Dave agrees to post pictures of every top he builds from now on with measurements and multiple angles. That will be his grain offering for pursuing education, lol.

Ervin is definitely a guy who knows which way he wants to go........

Before anyone gets their panties in a ruffle I have the utmost respect for Ervin and hope to take his class one day too. He was joking when he posed for this picture for me....... I liked him immediately!

Thank God you drank some beer--it dilutes the Kool-Aid.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks, Dave!

I had been hoping to take it this year too, but it just didn't work out. I had run out of re-schedule options for jury duty. Turns out I wasn't selected. Arrggghhhh.

Planning on next year.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Dave.....can you write something about what you learned in regards to HOW the bracing patterns affect tone? I realize this could potentially be a broad question so keep it simple if you must....

Thanks!

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There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

(Kool-Aid anyone?)

Um, none for me....thanks anyway.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Snig Ervin Somogyi's classes have been a topic that at times gets heated here - like Florida..... But at least in California, where Somogyi is located they seem to be able to count and not everyone is named Chad......

The thing to know about Ervin's classes is that you will be turned on to a new way of thinking about your guitar building and be empowered to take this to the next level yourself. The greatest and most valuable tool that Ervin imparts to his students is how to target a sound that YOU want to achieve and then set out to make it so.

It's not a guitar building class and students are expected to have some level of experience if only minor. It is a "voicing" class where the goal is again to be able to get the sound from your guitars that you desire.

So you rarely will see Somogyi students repeating the details or will you see, rarely, pictures of how they brace their guitars. But the classes are available to all, again some experience is best to have first.

There are critics as well but I think that most would agree that Ervin is one of the top builders alive today and this, these classes, are one of the ways that he makes his living. With this said I try to respect that his offerings represent significant value and I don't ask people to do a data dump about what happens in his classes.

I also enjoy a good glass of Kool-aid at times too.........

I learned a bunch from Ervin, but I now build very differently than he does, and I thank him for helping me understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. No cool aid here, but the beer was good!

Greg

I sure hope not - no matter what type of methods are employed and what building tactics are applied, there will always be someone who disagrees with it...
hopefully any points made to the contrary will be done respectfully - the last thing we need is to lose another member..

Looking forward to hearing what you can relay to us..
Cheers
Charlie

I never met Ervin, but I have emailed him a few times , he has always responded, seems like a good guy to me , his reputation speaks for itself.
the last time I had a questions about back plates , which he breifly answered but also said a full explaination was too complicated for emails , he did say if I could wait a short while he does have a book coming out soon!
I , in kind jest,I asked if I could prepay , and recieve a preview of the chapter on backs , which he was willing to do , if I was willing to compensate him for his time to gather and separate all the information on the backs .Not unfair at all. I did sayI would be anxiously awaiting the release of his book ! He does seem like a very down to earth guy and seems right on in my book! Jody

Now you can't go to Berkeley and not drink the Kool Aid!

Pat, there may be another course this year depending on demand so keep that in mind.

Sniggly, I would prefer not to try and paraphrase the course here. I will of course contribute what I can to this forum by responding to threads where I have insight or experience.

...and oh yeah, did I mention that Allied and LMI are a short drive away?

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

I've heard so much good about Somogyi's class. Given that I keep asking the questions of how and why guitars sound the way they do, it might be useful.

As a novice, would I be completely wasting my time and money? Is it something that I'd really need a strong background knowledge to benefit from? I'd guess by the time I can convince myself to afford it, I'll have 2-4 guitars under my belt. I'm just a hobbiest, so there's not a lot on the right-hand side of the cost benefit chart except these nagging questions I'm searching for answers to.

Meik

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Mike Lindstrom

Miek, I had built a few dozen when I took his class and I wished I'd taken it sooner. How much sooner is a tough question. I would think having built at least a few instruments would give you enough experience to make it well worthwhile.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

Miek, if you speak to ervin he will tell you the people that benefit most from his classes are those that have built the most guitars ... Jody

Miek, I had built about twice that number, and personally I think I got more out of it now than if I had gone a year earlier.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

How often does he offer classes? Do you know if there is a wait list or anything?
When you go, what sort of materials do you bring, if any?
I met him at ASIA and heard his talk. I am in the camp that likes and admires him. I would certainly be interested in going, but I am nervous to find how much it would cost. When you add in travel expenses and lodgings, I bet it gets to be a very pretty penny.

Most people sleep at the shop. Very bohemian... but a cool experience none the less.

I took a box of stuff, including some tops a few carving tools etc. but other than the tops I don't think you need much. I ended up buying some sample tops from him for the couse too.

One thing about the other expenses... you usually work so late that there isn't much time for whooping it up. So the "entertainment fund" can be quite meager.

I think it was such a great experience that I would gladly do it again for twice the price.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Hey Dave,

It was certainly nice to meet you when you were here! Lars says hi.

You missed the trip to Allied...

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

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I visited his website today to learn more about the book Jody mentions above. It will actually be a two book set. From all the comments I have read, I definitely am interested in the books.

By the way, if you want a look at his shop, check out The Workbench Book. I think that is the right book. The workbench thread a few weeks ago has me checking out everything about workbenches. Anyway, in the back of one of the books I checked out there was a section about woodworkers and their benches and Ervin Somogyi is one of the prominent woodworkers profiled. I think there were other luthiers as well. His shop (at that time anyway) was rather small with only basic tools. His vise was a versa vise. There was even what looked like a sample of a braced top on the bench.

Greg

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Greg Hatcher
North Carolina

Hi Mark, nice meeting you...and you don't know how much I missed the trip to Allied!

Are you guys are making Lars thickness Rosewood using pumice?

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Yo David and actually you are but a 15 minute drive from me Welcome home, aren't you glad we saved some snow for you?