Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi!

Anyone have experience or knowledge of crotch cut? Especially on back/side wood.

Where does crotch cut fit in terms of stability when compared to quarter sawn,flat sawn and rift?

Thanks!

the crotch cut is where the tree had a "Y" in the trunk. It can still be flat sawn or quarter sawn. Makes no difference. Some of the prettiest figure comes from stumps and crotches.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Some of the prettiest figure comes from stumps and crotches.



As well as some of the most unstable of woods. Thread lightly......

Like Ken said, there's some beautiful wood to be had out there in those crotches. But like Mario said, you're going to be taking a real chance with that stuff. That said, at the last GAL convention, I saw wood used that was real surprise: that which came from a graft. It was a cultivated (English, I think) walnut grafted onto a domestic root stock. The graft line was clearly visible, and oriented at midpoint of the back. The wood below the graft was dark, while the wood above was paler, and the juncture was just crazy wild.
It made stunning instruments. Of course, they may have returned to the shop by now to have the backs replaced!

If you are just set on trying this, you could laminate something straight-grained and mild-mannered to your crotch wood, hoping thereby to stabilize it enough to prevent cracks down the line.
And let us know how it works out.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I thought this thread was going to be about a bad accident...

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I did a cherry crotch back for a small parlor guitar I built for my daughter. I did it mainly to see what would happen. It was almost a bad accident. This one is one piece. After glueing the braces onto the back, it did a nasty warp and twist - sort of reminded you of a barber pole. I thought it was no good, but since it was a bit of an experiment anyway, I went ahead and glued it onto the sides. It seems to be OK and has been stable for 5 years now. I would suggest keeping it clamped flat until it is glued onto the sides and proceed with caution - very unstable!

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John Ressler

This brings up an interesting question - I was in the guitar store the other day and they had a bunch of Ibanez acoustics in there with Maple burl on the tops. I was wondering if they laminated that on there and if so, what was the substrate material? Have any of you done veneering like this with tops? or with backs and sides? They sounded a little weak, all highs and no bottom end whatsoever, but they sure looked pretty...

The first kit guitar I built seemed to have sycamore veneered on the backs and sides, but I'm not sure what the substrate material was - maybe plywood?

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Mitch

i would never use maple or veneer for a top.... i have way to many friends who end up with guitars with tops that are made of things like that just to look good.... (they never talk to me before getting them of course)

Wild-grained woods will eventually crack along the swirl lines which can be nearly impossible to repair. The extant Martin guitars from a century ago bear wittness- straight-grain, quartered BRW. Highly figured wood was no less beautiful back then, but it wasn't used for a reason.
Crotch wood may last 4 years, but it likely won't last 40. At least make the neck easily detatchable so that some part of the instrument will live on for a while

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Here is a better photo of the Cherry Crotch Grain. This guitar is about 5 years old. I'm not sure if it would be successful on a larger body guitar.

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John Ressler

I built a Dred. about 2 years ago using a walnut crotch for the back, and quartered straight grain for the sides. When I joined the back, it warped like a potato chip but once it was braced, it became stable enough to use on a guitar for myself. Once it was assembled to the sides it seemed as stable as any other back. 2 years later it still seems to be doing fine.

Al

Becouse crotch wood comes from the fork in a branch it nearly allways checks where the wood fibers grow in diferent directions.
i.e. one side of the board has been growing to the left the other to the right.
this puts horendus compresion and tensions in the wood.
crotch wood is a classic case of tension wood and and as such will cause problems.

would you use a peice of wood that has obviouse compresion ?
if not then i would advise against crotch woods.

that said there are allways exceptions to the rules that cherry back looks lovely and its still in service

joel.