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OK, my guitar has had strings on it for a week now, and has gotten more playing than any guitar I have ever had in a two week period. I have to say, that I am not disappointed in the least. It is very strong sounding, not wimpy at all, and has very even temperament across all the strings and frets. I had not done any work toward finishing because I thought I might want to tweak it. Not sure how I could improve it. I had a friend who is a good player, play it the other night. He has his Bachelors degree in Guitar Performance, and a Masters in Music Composition. He played for about an hour a couple of nights ago, and then took out his guitar, which is a luthier built classical, and his sounded like someone was pressing on the top by comparison. His was somewhat deeper sounding, but it is also a larger body. This Romanillos plantilla that I built to is a relatively small bodied guitar. Only 480mm long in the body. I have tried 3 different sets of strings on it now. The jury is still out on which I like best. The Hannabach Goldins, were very good, but the basses sounded a little metallic to me, the trebles were awesome. I have Savarez Corums on it now, and they are settling in, but seem very strong too. Good bass strings, particularly. I also tried some of the "WebStrings" which I use a good bit. They also sounded good, but not as hot as the other two sets. It has been a long time since I have played an expensive set of strings.

OK on to my question. I started the FP Process on the back tonight. I had a couple of spit coats on the guitar. I used Brown Shellac, which is what I liked the color of, on the Zebrawood. I may not use it for the top. Anyway, when I was Pore Filling with pumice, I went through a couple of spots on the back. Here are a few pictures if where I am. After getting pores mostly filled, I did a couple of body sessions to see what was happening. I may need to take off what I have done and start over. You tell me.

I guess I'm wondering if the color will fill these areas in subsequent sessions, or if I need to go back to bare wood and start over with new spit coats? I also see a couple of spots I need to fil, around the purfling, that I missed.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey Waddy looks sharp!
I can't comment on your questions but thought I would post anyway. I'm glad this project has worked out so well for you and you have already had the chance to play and hear it. Very cool. Good luck with the French Polish... I'm sure you'll nail it.
Christian

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Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Hi Waddy,

The Milburn Brothers tutorial covers your situation. http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html

A quote from same:

"During each session we will apply dozens of layers of shellac and will complete as many sessions as it takes to "body" the guitar (which is usually 6 to 8). Before proceeding, you may wish to examine the entire guitar very closely for any defects or unfilled grain that may have been overlooked previously. A little pumice and alcohol will take care of the unfilled grain. Remember, it is never too late to pumice. If the defects can be taken care of by a light sanding, use only 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper with oil as a lubricant."

Ive done this on several occasions and it works. Just make sure you add only alcohol and pumice to your muneca and make sure you clear excess pumice.

Cheers Martin

Good work on the FP Waddy.


I tried some Goldins the other day on one of my guitars. They felt like thinner strings on 1,2,3 ( I didn't check the diameters) and seem to give a louder clearer sound. 4,5,6 were very stiff. Even though I like the volume of the Goldins, I think I prefer the softer feel and sound of medium D'addarios.

One rule for French polishing that I try to adhere to is always fill pores as soon as possible. Although it's tempting to proceed with bodying, the new layers of shellac always magnify the pores, not fill them in. Like the Milburns say, it's never to late to fill, but it ends up making more work in the long run. Looking good, Waddy!

Waddy, I've been using the LMI Micro bead pore filler for my French polish finishes for several years. I sand to 100 grit, apply the filler, wait till dry (1-2 days) then sand back with 100 and proceed up the grits. The Micro bead completely sands off any light colored inlay without staining, but, as you have mentioned any missed pores stick out like a sore thumb.
As far as proceeding, you can go either way, remove and start over or proceed and hope the color (as you can see the darker shellacs, though they dry nice and hard, can present difficulties in achieving an even color) evens out to a tolerable level. Imagine how difficult polishing the top with this shellac might be. As you progress in your technique you can move with confidence to the darker materials, when well applied they lend a lovely amber hue to the instrument.
It depends whether you are considering this project a learning experience, or something where it will bother you if it is not "perfect" (I hate that term....) ....either way you can recover.

Maybe I didn't state my question clearly enough. What I want to know is, will additional bodying sessions cover up the light places that occurred during the pore filling process? I suppose these spots were "over pumiced", in my stroking. They are spots where I wore completely through the spit coats. The pores filled just fine. Yes I have a couple of places I missed in my effort to have gaps filled, but my concern is with the light spots where I abraded through the spit coats in the pore filling process. Will they eventually color, or do I need to do something specific to put more color there, that is different from the normal process? It was my choice to use the pumice method. I wanted to see how it works, and how hard it is. So far, lots of work, but not as bad as I expected.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy--

I've only done a couple of FP finishes on guitars, but I suspect that you are not going to be able to cover any spotchiness in the base, especially if the splotchiness is pumice that wasn't cleared. There are a couple of things that you can try. Using a new, clean muneca, remove the shellac using alcohol only until you can get to the base and work the light area out. A quicker way, but one that might cut through your pore filling would be to use 400 grit wet/dry with a little EVOO (olive oil) as lubricant. It could take a light touch, but the really good thing about FP is that just about everything seems to be repairable.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

Waddy I am a bit confused. If you followed the traditional method of pumice filling you are using your muneca with residual shellac in the inner muneca, you load the pumice and clear it on the muneca with a bit of alcohol. SO it should never be that abrasive to completely clear away the spit coat. Are you folowing the Milburn tutorial method?

I think I am the one who is confused. I read the tutorial again before I started, and when I read this,
"Applying the Pumice - We will not be using any new shellac during the entire pumicing process. This is very important- additional shellac during the pore-filling process will inhibit the operation. We will be using the already dry shellac "spit coats" that we have previously applied to the guitar. All that is used is the muneca loaded with alcohol and a very small amount of pumice applied to the muneca surface.
The muneca is touched to a bit of pumice on paper. The pumice is then distributed over the surface of the muneca with a finger.
The alcohol will dissolve the dry shellac while the abrasive action of the pumice is pulling off microscopic wood fibers which will be deposited into the pores of the wood along with the natural colored oils. Do not use any shellac while pumicing. As Eugene Clark says, "You would be better off if someone stole your shellac at this point." Your muneca must touch the surface of the wood. A heavy layer of shellac would prevent this. "

So, I used a muneca which had not been loaded with shellac, only alcohol. He really doesn't cover loading the muneca until after he covers pore filling. I, wrongly, assumed that alcohol only meant, just that. I guess what I want to know, is do I start over, or is there some other way to repair my error? I am not adverse to starting over. I just didn't know if there was another way.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Correct Do not add more shellac but there is residual in the inner pad. and this residualin conjunction with the pumice make the abrasive past the puls fibers of the surface and traps the in the past in the pores

Looks great!

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Try this again


Correct Do not add more shellac (unless needed due to too dy of inner pad) but there is residual in the inner pad. and this residual in conjunction with the pumice make the lightly abrasive paste that pulls fine fibers off the surface and traps them in the the pores allong with shellac from the surface and risidual shellac from the inner muneca.

shellac is the media that carries the fibers and pumice into the pores and traps it there. to be so abrasive to sand off the spit coat lends me to believe you may have been working either with the pumice still white or so dry you tured your muneca into sand paper

Always keep in mind that both too dry or to wet of muneca in any stage of the process will pull shellac off the surface

As I said, I used a muneca charged with alcohol, and added pumice and a few drops of alcohol from time to time. It worked great except for these two places. I switched to a loaded muneca, and added shellac to these areas that had worn through. I used pumice again to even things out. Now I have another place that is worn through, and the back is a bit splotchy. I'm hoping it will all even out after a bunch of body sessions. Except for the one place, it doesn't look as bad now, though it doesn't look good either. Part of this is probably the problem of using a shellac with a good bit of color.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

IMHO the light spots may be where youve leached out the colour from the wood with the alcohol on your pad. Ive had a similar thing happen while pumicing Indian Rosewood on the back of a few of my classicals. The lesson I learned was to pumice in small areas at one time and not apply too much pumice so I ended up having to work the spot to clear the pumice...and at the same time leach out colour from the wood.

Cheers Martin

Very good point the issu may have been a tad too much Alcohol. I wounder if this happened right after a new load up of pumice and alcohol?

It's Zebrawood. It has no color of it's own. The only color there was the Spit Coats of shellac that I had put on it. And yes, I leached through that, or ground it off.

No one has yet told me what to do with what I have. Anyone have any ideas at all, besides what I have done wrong, getting here? I know I erred in using a muneca with only alcohol in it, but I did. Though, even with a loaded muneca, I still get splotchy results. The point of my question was to see if I need to start over, or keep working it until I even it out. Also, remember, I am using Brown Shellac, not ultra light blond shellac.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

You should be able to gust add shellac to bring the color back.

Thank you. That's what I was hoping. When do you re-charge your muneca? After each session? During sessions?

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

You are referring to the inner pad; I make and charge my inner pad a day before I start. I make up one for 1# cut and one for 2# cut I use the 1# only during spit coating then later glazing. The 2# cut is used during boding I never recharge the inner pad unless it is not functioning properly. As you body you are continuously adding loads to the muneca. The shellac you add during the boding loads to the outer muneca melts into the residual shellac in the inner muneca. This loading maintains the inner charge in the muneca.

Thanks Michael, that's just what I needed to know.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy,
After charging the inner muneca be sure to store your muneca in an air tight container over night. The inner pad should gel to the texture of a very soft taffy. Also store your muneca in this air tight container between usages. When boding, be ready to change outer cover more often than you may think. if it stats to jell on the outer cover or discolor or dirty up replace the outer pad. I go through about 5 or more outer pads during boding. be aware that the outer pad will not be at prime efficiency right after replacement but will quickly improve.

I just want to say, "Waddy, I admire you for trying French Polish on your guitar."

I thought about F Polishing my first also, but after reading all this, I'm just going to buy some McFadden's and squirt it on...lol

I have a little bit of mahogany that I'm going to practice the FP on before I start on a guitar.

BTW, you have a beautiful guitar. I bet you and your family are really proud of it.

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Thanks Michael, I wore through a bunch of them doing the pumice filling. I think I'm pretty well filled right now, and can start bodying sessions. I still have not touched the top yet. Waiting until last to do that. Don't want to take the strings off. I'll have to stop playing it. I did some on the neck last night, and it went faster than I thought it would, though it is really hard around the heel joint with the sides, to get into that corner.

I'm pretty happy with it, so far, Chuck. thanks. The whole thing is an experiment. It's all about learning a process. So far, I'm fairly pleased with the level of success I have had, much of it, due to stuff I have learned here at OLF, over and above what I have learned from books and CD's. I'm still learning that it's the little stuff that counts. The big stuff seems to take care of itself if the little things are correctly dealt with.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey Waddy - I know I'm late on this, but I wanted to add a couple of points that I don't think haven't been mentioned yet. First, I feel your pain as this has happened to me in the past! I have had to cut everything back to the wood and started over. Colored shellac can be tough to deal with. One thing to think about is that your shellac cut should be really thin. This will help control the color build up and evenness. You should be able to wipe a piece of spruce and not really be able to see the color. I have also fixed this kind of problem by polishing with a pad charged with only alcohol. This can take a while as you are essentially "moving" the shellac on to the bare spots.

I would get the color even before building up too much.

Good luck -

/Rob