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I'm getting ready to bind and instrument, and I'd like to try the wick-in CA method this time. I've searched the archives and read up on it, and I have two questions.

First, my biggest fear is that the CA will run beyond the (reverse kerf) linings and make a mess inside my guitar. What I've read is that I should use water-thin CA (I'll be using Hot Stuff brand, because it's what I have; I have some Stew-Mac stuff, too, so I could use that if there's a reason to; they are both reasonably fresh), and use it *sparingly*. I can imagine myself trying to walk a fine line between making sure I'm wicking in enough glue to make a good bond, and wicking in too much and having it run beyond the linings, being very nervous about it the whole time. Are there any other tips you can give me for how to do this successfully?

Second, while I see the advantages of the CA method and want to give it a try, I don't relish the idea of cleaning up a bunch of CA/tape mess all over the outside of the guitar. Is there a kind of tape you'd recommend that the CA won't run under as much or bond to as much, to minimize the amount of scraping of glued-on tape after the job is done?

I know to seal with shellac before doing this.

Are there any other random tips you have for doing this CA method, to make it go efficiently and without a hitch?

Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd -

I'm not the person to answer this, as I haven't done enough of them to be an expert at anything, but it is the method I use. When applying the first drops of CA, I try to go sparingly enough so that it isn't running sideways under the tape - I figure if can control that, then it probably isn't running through the kerfing either. Basically, I'm trying to spot weld the bindings to the body, after which the tape can be removed and a more generous dose applied. But, I always make some mess anyway.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Todd, I have done 3 this way including one just a week ago. I also use Hot Stuff, I seal the top binding channels with shellac first to prevent the CA wicking into the end grain and staining the wood. I use pipettes and the brown tape from Stewmac or LMII.

I wouldn't say you have to use the CA sparingly, but on the other hand don't be just slopping it everywhere, apply carefully where needed and you shouldn't have problems with it running inside the guitar. Why not start on the lower bout to get experience - you could see a problem like that if you created it, but it wouldn't be obvious if it did happen.

For the most part you can avoid putting CA right on the tape, put CA around the tape, then remove the tape and reapply CA at that spot. There are a few spots that need to have the CA applied while the tape is on such as the waist. In this case the CA does bond the tape to the guitar - but in a few spots it's no big deal, I remove it with a scraper and sanding block. .

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

I try to avoid the brown tape for this. CA seems to react with this glue and thus forms a very hard residue on the guitar. It can be removed with some effort, but I've chosen to avoid the tape.

Instead, I have had more success using the fibre-reinforced packing tape. It also provides more force to keep the bindings in tighter contact with the sides.

I apply CA with a pipette and am able to observe the action of the wicking through the relatively transparent tape as well.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Hi Todd,

When I use SG for binding, I brush my binding with accelerator (Star-Bond brand) before taping in place. The accelerator limits the wicking action of the glue. And I'm with JJ on the tape -- use packing tape.

I've also done this with very little tape ... just enough to hold the binding in place, and then finger pressure to hold the binding where I want it, tacked in place with a drop of glue. Rubber finger cots from an office supply store, generously coated with paste wax, prevent skin loss

Hope this helps.

Best,

Jim

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James Warwick
J. Warwick Guitars, LLC
http://www.jwarwickguitars.com

Hi Todd

I like the CA method. I use binding tape from LMI spaced out ever half inch or so, and flake the dried CA off the top with a chisel. I use hot stuff.

A couple of fingers wrapped with regular packing tape helps you from wearing the box. If you see a gap you can push it in, bit of glue, shot of execrator and instant gratification. I've only done one but had no runs inside.

Good Luck,
Danny

You guys rock! These are great tips. Just what I needed. Keep 'em coming, if anybody's got some more!

Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I have done several this method, and know others who have used it on almost all of their guitars.

I use thin and the pipe droppers that can get I think at Ste'w-Mac. I don't tape much at all. I do of course a dry run and make sure it is tight in the waist, I then tape it with the fit to hold in place as I glue, but I don't hold the binding down with tape after I put glue on. The thin stuff drys really fast. I go from the waist to the neck block in about 4-6" intervals. I lay it in the channel and hold it tight, the wick the CA into it. I have a paperl towel to lightly wipe excess off. I hold it for several seconds and go to the next section. Once get to where the binding will join the other side go slow and get it centered. I do the same going from waist to the end block. You do have to hold it tight in the channel, but if take time you won't get fingers stuck to many times and binding sets well in the channel. Don't have a bunch of tape mess to deal with

No need to tape every 1/2"! Every couple inches should do just fine.

Sprinkle baking soda in the channel, and gently blow most of it out, before taping the bindings in place. The baking soda will be your accelerator.

I second the fiber enforced packing tape, for a couple reasons. First as JJ said the adhesive does not react to the CA, second you can pull tighter and it comes off better if wet CA gets under it. Sealing the channel with shellac is a must at least on the top and I seal the top its self as well to help prevent fiber pull out when the tape is removed.

I pre fit my binding and purfling and work from the end graft forward being sure that all is pulled tight as I go. I use a 2 oz CA bottle and extra fine capillary tips. I never squeeze the bottle I let gravity pull the CA out. I find pipettes tend to clog at the tip to often. The capillary tips I get rarely do. It is when you try to make the CA run out that most messes are made. If you use good capillary tips and allow gravity to pull the CA out you will make much fewer messes.

I always tape a couple inches past where I am gluing at the time to keep the binding pulled in tight ahead of my work. Most goofs are from allowing the CA to set without flush contact between binding/purfling and the channel at the end of the previous glue up. You waste a few pieces of tape per side but taping ahead of your work area sure keeps the binding drawn in nice and tight.

I know this is contrary to popular opinion but I did a few test pieces gluing binding to bare wood and wood that had been sealed with vinyl sealer and with shellac. The sealed samples peeled right off with no wood coming loose. Because of that, I only use it on backs anymore, where I don't have to seal. It's really most useful where you have miters anyway.

As Michael said, the water thin stuff wicks a long way and it's easy to glue something down that you don't want glued. I tape the entire piece in place before gluing.

I also highly recommend some serious protection. I've gotten so sensitive to the stuff that I built an exhaust hood, wear a respirator and goggles, and take an antihistymine before binding with it.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

Todd, I use CA for binding as well. A lot of good tips above. Many ways to skin this cat, though what I don't follow is the need for an accelerator when using Hot Stuff which really sets up quickly.

I snuggly pre-tape a section of purfling and binding starting at the butt end every couple of inches with more in the waist area (and horn cutaway section if applicable). The packing tape works great and is available at HomeDepot or any office supply place. Also get yourself a tape dispenser as it makes it a whole lot easier to cut pieces as you need them rather than precutting strips of tape. When you start to CA in the purfling/binding remove a piece of tape....insert some CA..re-tape every inch or so and keep going. In the waist area use more packing tape. Another thing I occassionaly do is make two little wood cauls that fit the waist area and coat with packing tape and clamp across the waist. At times no matter how hard you snug the tape or how well you purfling/binding fits the waist....there is a tiny gap after the glue sets.

When you join the purfling and binding at the butt end use titebond as it will make the end seam less visible than CA, as CA tends to leave a witness line especially on lighter coloured wood.

Also if not suggested above, put a wash coat of shellac around the perimeter of the top...it strengthens the spruce fibers. Also lightly coat the purfling channel. The wash coat of shellac on the perimeter and the purfling channel also inhibits any colour bleed from your purfling which CA has a tendancy to cause.

Todd,

I've taped every couple inches and put on little enough CA to keep it from running under the tape, remove the tape, then do the rest.

The last one I did, I use almost no tape, just to get started, then did like Jim said.

No CA inside yet. Knock on wood!

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Hardly ever have problem with pipette clogging up. I have a block of wood with drilled hole that holds the pipette tip up when finished. The pipette also allows me better control and goes long way. I simply wipe the tip off, tap it in the holder to clear it some and set it in holder. I can do a lot of CA before having to cut tip slightly. I can keep the CA in the pipette when not using it at all and just have to wipe of with paper towel before using. For me the bottles are bulkie(sp)

Guess doing it wrong going from waist to both end seperate, but waist for me any way is where I tend and have seen others tend to get seperation. I do fit it at the waist and then to several inches maybe to the upper and lower bout and tape that tight then start the glue process. I am pretty confident if get no seperation and tight join at the waist and each side the rest will fall in place easier. That works for me any way.

I agree, with the ventilation thing by Kent. I notice more and more the fumes are making me have headaches and takes just a moment to put on even if just a paper mask. I also use the magniifing visor so can better see my work and make sure no really small seperations. That is probably due more to age and old eyes, but think it helps anyone for close up view of work.

I've done it several times and have had good luck with it. I seal first, then I go around making a light mark on the top in the locations where there is a hole where the ca could drip into the body. In these areas I do not saturate, and use the glue sparingly. I usually don't cut my channels too deep so I don't have a lot of holes where CA could go into the body. I then attach the binding and purfling at the waist first. I'll tape every inch or so, just to keep the binding in place. I then remove the tape in a 1" area and use those quick grips(with plastic tape on the clamps) to get the binding pressed tight into place, then wick in the thin super glue. Wait for 2 minutes or so, then move the quick grip another inch and do again. I'm actually gluing both sides at the same time because the quick grip is clamping both sides. But I'm moving in opposite directions on each side. So one side I'm moving towards the butt of the guitar, while the other side I'm moving to the neck end. I seem to get much better contact this way. I'll have to try Mario's suggestion about baking soda in the channel first. This will help speed things up. Great tips everyone!

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Not a knock on pipettes, Just my personal experience.

Both capillary tips and pipettes use a capillary tube to dispense the CA. Pipettes are made with a thinner wall thickness. Good capillary tips have a slightly thicker wall thickness. and are available in smaller ID which is great for slow controlled gravity flow of water thin CA. quality capillary tips are a bit more expensive than the same quantity of pipettes but we are talking pennies here.

The capillary tips I use are considerably smaller ID than the pipettes commonly sold and in my personal experience last much longer than disposable pipettes.

Having used pipettes and capillary tips both in lutherie and in RC modeling for many years I see no control advantage to pipettes over a bottle and well fitted capillary tip. In fact I find the bottle has an advantage over the pipette. Due to the ultra thin wall of a pipette, it is difficult to hold the without imparting enough pressure to on the pipette to increase the natural gravity flow of the CA out of the pipettes capillary tube. On the other hand It is easy to hold a 2 oz bottle with out exerting added air pressure on the CA, allowing only gravity flow which is really what you want for best control with water thin CA. Plus I do not have to refill the bottle in mid process, and it stands up on its own does not need a holder.

With all that said not all capillary tips are equal. I have had some that would not seal even on a brand new CA bottle’s stinger. The good ones have a almost rubbery feel to the big end the ones that harder attachment end are not worth a flip at sealing on the bottle tip. This is not much of an issue except with water thin CA. the ones that come with the 16oz bottles of Starbond CA are good.

Very interesting that several of you do not tape all the binding in place before wicking in the CA, but, rather, work your way around much like doing binding with Titebond or whatever. I had assumed that everybody tapes it all in place first when using CA.

Andy, good point about the seam between the ends of the binding/purfling at the butt end. I wonder, though, of there's another way to avoid the "witness line" from the CA there. My first thought is to seal the ends of the bindings and purflings with shellac before putting them in place, but I'm not certain if that would do it. It would make life simpler, it seems to me, to not have to use Titebond there, but rather to just do the whole job with CA, as long as it can be made to look great. Anybody else have thoughts on this detail?

I'm looking for PERFECT results.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

With CA it kind of depends on the wood. the lighter the more noticable. the best hide the seam method I have is scarf joint and fish glue-hhg or even titebond

While I do work my way around when CA attaching binding/purfling I am taped up ahead of where I am working at the time by several inches depending on the area. I make darn sure ther is no chance of CA wicking to an area that is not flush and tight. because if it did happen, wood binding would be easy to deal with getting loose but fine line purfling pretty much will melt at worst deform at best.

Sorry, I meant Anthony, not Andy.

By the way, Anthony also pm'd me to point out the article he wrote for Guitarmaker on this very subject. Somehow I'd overlooked it, because, at first glance, I thought it was only about binding F holes in archtops, and I don't build archtops (yet). So, for any of you who are lurking around this thread and want more info, Andy's - I mean Anthony's - article is great. It's in the latest issue.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd, no worries about the name, I get that all the time.

Using Titebond for the end seam takes very little extra time or effort -- so I it's well worth the effort.

First, you want me to use two different glues on my bindings, then you want me to call you Anthony, rather than the much simpler Andy. Man, you're really trying to make life hard for me!

But seriously, I'll take your advice, Anthony. So, I'll use Titebond at both ends of the bindings/purfs on the back of the guitar. I guess this is easy enough to do - unless anyone else has any brilliant methods for dealing with this visible CA glue line issue...?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/