Official Luthiers Forum!

The first one that comes to mind is the Lie Nielsen beauty, and I may just plonk down the money for it......hesitantly. I have no doubt that it's worth every penny, it's just that I'm trying to economize and spread my "woodwork fund" on several different needed items. The Lie Nielsen is enough $ for me to buy several other things I'm in desperate need for.

So bottom line is... Are there any worthy Jointer Planes for a little less (or a lot less) cash than the LN? I'm so tempted by the LN not only because of it's beautiful craftsmanship, etc... but because it's pretty much ready to rock right out of the box, which let's face it, is nice. Weird thing is, I think I can get a vintage Stanley for less than a LN which is what the LN is based on! Why is that?

Tell me about the Jointers you guys own. I'll be using mine mainly to joint my boards before gluing them up, and other miscellaneous things down the road I'm sure.

I was taught to use aluminum 1"x3" bar stock which i straightened to within .001 on a granit block from grizzly, and some sandpaper, to join plates. Jody

Lee Valley Veritas 14 inch jack, low angle, retuned for 56 degrees ..... less than the low end LN jack, and felt better in my hands. Plus it has the iron side adjustment screws, none on the LN.

Just put a top together this morning .. 6 passes, and not a gap in sight.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Plenty of nice old Stanley #7 & 8's around, if you want the long jointer.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Hi Todd,

What does FTJ stand for? I have been looking to buy an LN Low angle block, and was about to order from woodcraft.

Thanks!

Glenn

You'll have to hurry, but here's a pretty good looking pair.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Stanley-Pla ... dZViewItem

-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

True, that. But you will prolly have to invest tons of time tuning the plane, and the odds of having the cheeks perpendicular to the sole are slim (pretty darn essential for shooting). Nice Stanley #7 and #8's typically go for $90 to $100 or more on eBay. When you add the cost of a new iron, and the trouble of messing with an old plane, the Veritas #6 starts looking cost effective. Here's the link: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47298&cat=1,41182
I have had one for 6 months and still get a charge from using it. The A2 steel blade is nothing short of amazing.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

I would respectfully submit that perpendicularity is not such an issue if you shoot your joint with the plates two up like most of us do. Any error is cancelled when you put them together for gluing.

I like going the old Stanley route. There's quite a range of prices for them on ebay. I buy the non-collector ones. Something about really knowing my tools that keeps me more connected to what's going on. But that's just me.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

What do you think of the one made by E.C. Emmerich? Here is their page:
http://www.ecemmerich.com/primus-hobel.html

I bought an old Stanley Jack Plane on e-bay a couple years ago for $17. The iron was almost new and the plane had seen little use since it was made in 1920 or so. A few minutes flattening the sole and a half hour with water stones and I was in business. I use the jack plane for joining backs and tops, flattening fingerboards, neck blanks etc, and next to an old Seargent VBM bench plane, it is my most often used plane.

If you just want to joint your boards, you could just buy this jointing jig that I sell. It will joint all your boards just as easily.

Or a stanley will work just fine if you have the skills to sharpen it.

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

One more vote for a Stanley #5 from e-Bay. I flattened the sole, tuned it a bit and put Hock steel in it and was in business. Lie-Neissen tools are top o' the line, but my wallet just can't take the hit.

Here is a pretty cool link on setting up a used plane--

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/Tools/Plane.htm

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

Todd, a properly made plane doesn't need much maintenance. My shop is full of them and I have crazy humidity fluctuations. (Most lutheier's shops and much better controled) I really recomend Granidillo for a plane wood. Very, very stable wood. More stable than Mahogany and hard enough for a plane with no need for a seperate sole.
I use one's I make. Easy to do. I can make one at this point in 2 hours and that includs flattening and sharpening the iron from a blank. Doesn't include glue drying time. I have been making and using my own wooden planes and irons for over 25 years now and have refined the process. I would be happy to share with anyone who's interested.

One thing I wondered about after seeing how carefully and well you lutheiers do everything is why a lot of you would use a jointer or sandpaper to join such a visable and important joint as the top plate. A hand plane is without question the best way to make the strongest and most invisable joint. To make a guitar you have to master skills much harder than edge joining. Yet I see so many of you all using sandpaper. I even saw some one putting sand paper on the sole of a plane to use after hand planing ! A lot of tweeking in guitar work to find the absolute best way to do something and yet for basic edge joining gluing sandpaper on a level ? I am not criticizing but I am questioning it.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Time is the number one reason that I see. I'm no expert, but the people that I know that are building for a living are usually in a hurry. If you cannot tell the difference between a sanded joint and a hand planed joint, what difference does it matter. There is obviously 2 camps on this thought, but most that are in the camp of a sanded joint is just as good will use this method. These are guys that have built 2 guitars, these are guys that have built 100's, and have never had an issue with their guitars separating at this joint. Hope that helps explain.

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Todd, You should see the Granidillo planes I have. I have a 20" jointer and that thing stays dead flat through some crazy swings here in Sonoma Co. Ca. I can have a 40% one day in my shop in the early winter and then it will rain and it will be 80% when I get there in the morning. Hot and dry in the summer and then the fog will roll in for a few days. Big swings and unfortunatly my shop is not very air tight. I did a lot of research for the holy grail of plane woods with the late Jon Arno and came up with Granidillo. The best combination of T/R ratios and volumetric shrikage #'s plus my experience with it also bears out it's stability. Very unusual for a dense wood to be that stable. Better than Mahogany or old growth redwood. So I say make your own planes, cheep and so easy !
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

I've done all of my joining for many years with my Record #4. It was not too good at first, but once I found out about how to tune it up things went much better. Sure, it takes a while to get the thing right, but you never have to do it again.

Back in WW II they used a lot of wood in aircraft structures. At one point early on they were having problems with wood props delaminating. The Forest Products Lab looked into it, and found that the ones with laminations that had been planed to thickness were fine, it was the sanded ones that let go. So far the only problems I've had with properly hand planed joints were those I clamped too tightly, and starved of glue. Nothing beats a freshly planed surface.

That sums it up for me. I have an old Bailey #7 or 8, but my L-N #4 1/2 is what I use to joint anything less than 3 feet long.

For a relatively short piece a #5 Jack plane would be OK--for anything longer than 36" or for flattening up a table top a #7 is advisable.

I got an old #7 off Ebay for about $35 and rehabbed it--it was rusty, put it through electrolysis, repainted it to simulate japanning, etc. Now it's a champ.

Rehabbing planes is as much a specialized skill and almost as addictive as luthiery! I used to buy and sell on Ebay and made enough to support my habit, nothing more. I now have about 25 planes of various vintages in my collection.

Re' jointing boards for guitars or anything else: there are a number of ways to skin this cat. I have a power jointer, you can also joint on the table saw clamping the pieces to a straightedge. It requires a bit of skill to do it by hand with a plane, but it doens't take to long to master. I personally wouldn't try to joint for glue-up by sanding. Coarse sandpaper is good for leveling pretty flat surfaces, but the surface will not compare to that from a properly tuned handplane, which has been used by fine cabinetmakers for centuries (along with scrapers) as the final surface preparation prior to finishing.

What do you guys think of this for planing the tops and backs before joining?

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=7_5

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Mark Burton

Hook 'em Horns

For jointing I have a really nice Record #5 that Todd Stock reconditioned and let me have. It was so very sharp when I received it that I still have not had to sharpen it and this is after about 10 guitars........

I also have one of Chris's very cool little block planes and it works great and is easier on my fingers then the Ibex finger planes.

My brace carving is almost entirely done with planes now and it is one of the very most satisfying parts of guitar building for me.





I wanted to mention too that I picked up one of Tracy's very fine jointing jigs and tried it recently and it worked fantastic right out of the box. If you have problems jointing plates or don't have a suitable plane this is a very welcome alternative. I agree with my freind Link that a freshly planed joint is better than a sanded one but for jointing I think that a sanded joint, as long as it candles perfectly and is joined with HHG or FG is good enough.

Mburton you can't go wrong with LN stuff. My problem with it with the few that I have is that they are so very nice I almost don't want to use them........

Don't we all love planes! You can't go wrong with any of the suggestions. Watch out if you get an old Stanley off eBay. I got the bug and now have a complete set of Bedrocks. If you want to just go to work I vote the LN low angle jack since I use that one the most. If you want to learn about plane and have some fun get an old Stanley.

Steve