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how would you go about cleaning and repairing this top?





as you can see there are many repair issues, I'll probably have to spint some cracks, they were wide open before I humidified it but there is some missing wood along the seams and old glue in the joints from a previous horrible repair.



Take a look at this neck repair someone made years ago, I'm afraid the neck will not be able to be saved what do you think? This is an 1880's vintage low value gut string Martin my great aunt found in a coal mine when she was in her teens now she is about 90 and can't afford a proper restoration.











any suggestions?[img][/img]

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I have to second Tony's advice. The only repairs that top needs that I can see is the cracks reglued. Nothing should be touched otherwise, and aside from perhaps one particular section of crack I see no need for splines (from what I can see in the photos). As to the neck, that's a much more complicated rebuild or replacement than can be tutored over the internet.

Even if you can't afford a proper restoration at this point, this is not a suitable candidate for a do-it-yourself home repair. If it's not feasible to have it properly repaired right now, I would consider selling it to someone who can have it restored or put it back in to storage until you can. If you do want to restore it yourself, I would still put it back in to storage and get a few years of learning and repairing lesser projects before taking this on.

It's a job very much worth doing right, and with no disrespect is intended, from the questions you put forth it sounds as though it is beyond your current means or abilities to do.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

I agree with both of you and take no offense but what we have here is an instrument that has been in the family a long time and was used by my aunt for many years. She is now very old and would like it to be in playing condition again before she dies. I am a builder of classical guitars and I would never want to see a great Hauser or Ramirez in this shape but this guitar although rare is not in that same catagory. Furthermore it has far greater value as a family heirloom than as a vintage guitar. Original I declined to have anything to do with it's restoration just as many of you would have but my aunt wants me and me alone to work on this guitar because of the family connection, so later as years go on and this guitar is passed on to new generations of our family it could be told that not only was it rescued from a mine by our aunt it was also preserved for others in the family by a luthier relative.

Again I'm uneasy about such a project but I feel I could do a decent job as long as I'm patient and careful. I'm not looking to replace a top or make any non-vintage changes like taking a ""63 Ragtop VW" and choping it and lowering it. Rather i just want to stabilize it's condition and make it playable before my aunt dies. After she is gone then maybe we can shelf it and wait for a better restoration. We have to remember that guitars are things and not more important than good family.

So I'm just asking what would be the best way to approach this project if you had to do it.

Ed, what part of the world are you in? When I think of coal mines, I think of west Virginia, but I know there are many states with coal mines...

I have seen these types of repairs being done, but in no way would I be able to give advice on how to approach it. If I had a idea of where you are, I might have someone close to you that could give some expert advice.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Thanks Ken,

I live in the California High Desert near Victorville.

Somehow I had the idea you were on the east coast....guess the picture of the coal miner's daughter was kickig in there..

Sorry, but the three people I know that do restorations all live on the east coast. NJ, PA, and NC.

Maybe someone else will know of someone out on the west coast that can help.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Thanks for understanding out hesitation Ed. I'm sure you understand the concern when a new face shows up here to ask how to repair a vintage piece, while we have no knowledge of their judgment, background, or skills. Sounds like you have a decent footing in the trade though.

Of course the motto "first do no harm" immediately comes to bear here. As to the wear on the top, I would do nothing. The cracks, I would likely repair with hide glue and light cleats, even if they are dirty, so long as they close fairly tightly. If there are gaps then splines could be suitable, though I feel they are generally used far more often than need be.

The neck is a different issue. A repair of that neck would likely involve such a large section of it being spliced in and replaced, that I would be more likely to replace the entire neck. I feel it would simply be less work to carve a duplicate neck, new board and all (though you could certainly use modern frets) than it would be to restore the original. This also allows the original to be steamed off and preserved should it ever prove worth fully restoring.

A part of me also feels it just as valuable to preserve the neck in it's current repaired state, as it seems to carry it's own share of history and beautiful stories - even if we do not know them. Maintaining a history of the trauma and repairs it has undergone in generations past seems near as invaluable as the instrument itself. I feel minimal repairs of the top and making a new neck would allow you to bring the instrument back to a functional life, while not erasing it's past. It would also leave less risk of irreversible changes if you don't feel comfortable trying to restore the original neck. This may sound a bit of a sentimental approach, but I think it's appropriate for the circumstances.

Please keep us posted if you move forward with this, and welcome to the forum.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Thanks David for your input. I've actually been a long time member but lost my old ID and status when the forum moved. I was ebarajas and one of the people that started the CNC area. I had the same idea about the neck, I'd like to take it off and keep it preserved as a momento of history. I'd like to keep the bar frets but i'm not sure where to get replacements. Your right about the cracks most are closed up enough to just glue up with hide glue and possible add cleats underneath. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

You can get bar fret stock from T.J. Thompson in Concord, Ma.

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- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!

Thanks Louis.

Agree with David. I had a one of the show perfomers (they were voted cma or one of those award shows top country swing band) come in with if remember right a 36 or 37 Gibson L7.
The binding was coming off and looked (sure it didn't) the top had shrunk back and leaving end block ledge, and when seeing it saw several other issues. It had been repaired badly in my view from someone over the years. My first inclination was ok remove or fix the binding. But as Dirty Harry said, "a man has to know his limits". I am not in the repair end of things, but want to go there more than building at this point. I thought of taking it and getting advice, and going for it. He didn't want to part with it the many months Gibson said they would need to have it, and understood it might be expensive and that wasn't a concern. He also said didn't care if came out perfect, but the ledge just bothered him. Long story short, I recommended him to a real repair guy on the forum. Tell you truth it scared crud out of me to take such an instrument with the value it has and the added value he placed on it and then screw it up. Not a good way to get other jobs or recommendation. Since then have had several repairs from folks he mentioned to about me. Tthey are just at this point main line repairs. Nut, saddles and fret fixem ups, but they are something and way to get more, as all have been happy with the work.

I don't know what he did as haven't heard from him about the guitar or what he decided. But he was very appreciative of fact I didn't say sure I'll do the best I can and get it back to you.

I am sticking to the bread and butter things in repair and learning as I go on stuff I buy or I absolutely know I can do. if I pick up an old guitar and can take the time to learn and do harder stuff I will do that. My goal is to become a good or as good as I can be in time I have to learn and let that support my learning more about instruments and building. Ed it is good to see you back. How did the shop you were building turn out.

I heard on NPR that the new third leading cause of death in the US is from receiving services or procedures in the US health care system........... They have the motto about doing no harm too........

Ed I understand the situation and the real value here of the instrument to your aunt and more importantly, at least to me, what you are trying to do to please your aunt. Good for you!

I say go for it and I suspect that you will do a great job too. And if you don't mind I am fascinated by this instrument so posting some progress pics along the way would be greatly appreciated.

Good luck.