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 Post subject: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:03 am 
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Koa
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First name: Jim Howell
The following link was posted on another forum and I found it to be insightful and thought provoking. Thought that it might stir up some of the philosophical underpinnings of why we do what we do with our hands.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-soulcraft

Enjoy the read and chime in with your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Koa
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Great article Jim.I speak from personal experience,having been a remodeling contractor,really just a carpenter,for my entire adult life,that the personal satisfaction and feeling of self worth I have enjoyed is priceless.I guess this is why I`ve never considered CNC products in my guitar building.
James W B

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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Thanks for sharing this article, Jim. This is great food for thought.

As a result of attempting these impossible woodworking tasks called guitars, my level of self-reliance around the house has continued to increase. Always one for taking stuff apart, or repairing someone else's trash, I believe to a certain extent, that we are born with the inclination to take on manual labor...even if we possess advanced degrees and seem to rely on technology in other areas. The self-satisfaction and need for something tangible to "leave behind" is something that friends and family insists that drives me. Who cares...it's fun to keep busy and make stuff, or repair stuff or create something totally new.

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Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:48 pm 
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I dont have time to actually read the whole thing right now, but I skimmed it enough to get the jist and it's something I can relate to. I've spent my life working with my hands in the trades and now have a job that most guys I know would kill to have. Killer pay, killer benefits, everything a man could ask for. And especially if you were to find out what I actually DO all day every day, it would make my next statement sound absolutely ridiculous.

I don't like it. In fact, I find myself all the time having to fight the urge to go back to construction. It's something I've shared with folks at work and a few of them understand where I'm coming from. When I was working construction, I WORKED. I mean, we hit it hard all day every day with top notch quality and production. It was something I was dang good at. And even when you go home dog tired, you could hit the gate, turn around, and say "I'm leaving something better than I found it." or "That wasn't here when I got here this morning."

A good day at work now is when I DO leave it basically the same way I found it. Nothing blew up and we made a little more money. The job satisfaction just isn't there.

BUT, once in a while I get thrown a bone. I love to troubleshoot and fix stuff and when everything goes down I'm right in the middle of it, getting it back on line. Then the rush is over and it's right back to the same ol'. Emergency situations get my blood pumping and, again, I'm known at being very good at what I do. On those days, I'm able to get some of that job satisfaction back and carry me through a while longer.

Anyway, don't mean to use the forum to whine about my excellent job, but to say I fully understand the need to create things. I guess that's where the guitar building comes in, to give me that outlet. Except right now at home I've got more remodeling and building to do than one man can handle. It's overwhelming, but at the same time, it's satisfying, too.

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Wes McMillian
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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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What a timely article, thank you so much for posting a link to an essay that was exactly what is constantly on my mind.

Now I personally feel my true opinions about "Craftmanship" may be too contraversial and perhaps a little pertinent to the early stage of guitar building I am at, but I certainly qualify to express my opinions in the lifelong training I have had in the arts and crafts.

At work, up to three years ago, our college was bursting at the seams with students wanting to learn traditional crafts, and our two and three year City and Guilds courses (equivelent from an "As" level to "Diploma") were popular. People were willing to go through the discipline of strict tuition, precision and skill of a given craft. This required a hefty syllabus, and at the end, they recieved both a qualification and valuable hand skills...our annual exhibitions were full of awe-inspiring work, all the more, because the exhibits were individually hand crafted.

Recently, there has been a decline in attendance- the main reason, after doing a little market research, because people didn't have the time or patience; it's cheaper to buy the item they originally wanted to make...but I need to digress.

My Dad was trained as a "sparky" and progressed onto IT, and is head of an IT department at his local authority. In "those days", he could take his Morris Minor apart and fix it...infact that was the occupation of many a 1970's husband during weekends, he grew many vegetables and fed his five kids on the stuff, my mother made us clothes...and to me, these are valuable life skills that are lacking even among rural dwellers!!

I feel that the following article I read yesterday in the Times Newspaper links in with this topic..the frustration and low tolerance we feel may be becuase we are "underchallenged"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 949995.ece

I always ask myself the question; if a cross-section of western civilisation were taken and transported to a remote, de-technologised area with raw materials (hand tools, seeds, etc), could he survive, or would he die of starvation?

We are TOO reliant on this corporate world we live in, and not in our own ability to solve problems!!


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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Koa
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I should probably add my $0.02 -- probably a dime these days! :)

My grandparents were farmer/carpenters and my father was a mechanic, but I am a product of the 1960's 'space race' where science and math were king. Fortunately, my father taught me how to work on a car (I still have a 1973 MGB that I purchased in 1981 -- sort of like a Harley in that it will take you anywhere, but it might not bring you back wow7-eyes) and my grandfather's carpentry rubbed off enough to allow me to work my way through school doing remodel carpentry. I've worked in engineering and I still work in IT, but I am much more satisfied actually making something with my hands. The current emphasis is on guitar making which brings me a great deal of personal satisfaction -- in fact some amount of amazement that number one actually plays. I find a great deal of good in being able to work with my hands and I am proud that I can. I hope that somehow, society can come back to grips with the fact that making, building and fixing things is what might really be a valid part of what it is all about. This is not to discount the intellectual pursuits, but to accentuate them, to somehow let go of the stigma of actual work.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC


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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:51 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Excellent article, and thanks for bringing it here! I'm forwarding it to some people at UofM I've been working with, who are currently anticipating a battle to maintain the School of Architecture wood shop with the coming of a new dean and building additions. The main university woodshop was lost a few years ago, and this is all that's really left (aside from engineering metal shops).

If I may quote a few paragraphs from the article -

Quote:
Following graduate school in Chicago, I took a job in a Washington, D.C. think tank. I hated it, so I left and opened a motorcycle repair shop in Richmond. When I would come home from work, my wife would sniff at me and say “carbs” or “brakes,” corresponding to the various solvents used. Leaving a sensible trace, my day was at least imaginable to her. But while the filth and odors were apparent, the amount of head-scratching I’d done since breakfast was not. Mike Rose writes that in the practice of surgery, “dichotomies such as concrete versus abstract and technique versus reflection break down in practice. The surgeon’s judgment is simultaneously technical and deliberative, and that mix is the source of its power.” This could be said of any manual skill that is diagnostic, including motorcycle repair. You come up with an imagined train of causes for manifest symptoms and judge their likelihood before tearing anything down. This imagining relies on a stock mental library, not of natural kinds or structures, like that of the surgeon, but rather the functional kinds of an internal combustion engine, their various interpretations by different manufacturers, and their proclivities for failure. You also develop a library of sounds and smells and feels. For example, the backfire of a too-lean fuel mixture is subtly different from an ignition backfire. If the motorcycle is thirty years old, from an obscure maker that went out of business twenty years ago, its proclivities are known mostly through lore. It would probably be impossible to do such work in isolation, without access to a collective historical memory; you have to be embedded in a community of mechanic-antiquarians. These relationships are maintained by telephone, in a network of reciprocal favors that spans the country. My most reliable source, Fred Cousins in Chicago, had such an encyclopedic knowledge of obscure European motorcycles that all I could offer him in exchange was regular shipments of obscure European beer.

There is always a risk of introducing new complications when working on decrepit machines, and this enters the diagnostic logic. Measured in likelihood of screw-ups, the cost is not identical for all avenues of inquiry when deciding which hypothesis to pursue. For example, the fasteners holding the engine covers on 1970s-era Hondas are Phillips-head, and they are always stripped and corroded. Do you really want to check the condition of the starter clutch, if each of ten screws will need to be drilled out and extracted, risking damage to the engine case? Such impediments can cloud one’s thinking. Put more neutrally, the attractiveness of any hypothesis is determined in part by physical circumstances that have no logical connection to the diagnostic problem at hand, but a strong pragmatic bearing on it (kind of like origami). The factory service manuals tell you to be systematic in eliminating variables, but they never take such factors into account. So you have to develop your own decision tree for the particular circumstances. The problem is that at each node of this new tree, your own, unquantifiable risk aversion introduces ambiguity. There comes a point where you have to step back and get a larger gestalt. Have a cigarette and walk around the lift. Any mechanic will tell you that it is invaluable to have other mechanics around to test your reasoning against, especially if they have a different intellectual disposition.


Kind of Robert Pirsig-esque, I know. Still, that does better to sum up why I've preferred repair as a career over instrument building. That's certainly not to say that building doesn't come with it's fair share of head-scratching, but repair certainly presents a different array of challenges.

Thanks again Jim - great article.

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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Great Article. Observing the lack of survival skills in the academic crowd he works with, one of my kids came up with the idea of "Man Camp". Rent a trendy resort in the country, assemble a good staff, and charge guys big $$$$ to teach them basic woodworking, electrical, automotive, plumbing skills etc. plus how shoot/catch and dress out your own food. Think it would fly?
We are more and more becoming the Eloi and Morlocks
Terry

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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:43 pm 
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That is an awful lot of words. Can I assume the gist is that as a society we don't value manual work the way we once did, and there is value in learning and practicing good craftsmanship?


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 Post subject: Re: Food for thought?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:14 pm 
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westex93 wrote:
>snip< Killer pay, killer benefits, everything a man could ask for. And especially if you were to find out what I actually DO all day every day, it would make my next statement sound absolutely ridiculous.

I don't like it. >snip< When I was working construction, I WORKED. I mean, we hit it hard all day every day with top notch quality and production. It was something I was dang good at. And even when you go home dog tired, you could hit the gate, turn around, and say "I'm leaving something better than I found it." or "That wasn't here when I got here this morning."

>snip< I love to troubleshoot and fix stuff and when everything goes down I'm right in the middle of it, getting it back on line. Then the rush is over and it's right back to the same ol'. Emergency situations get my blood pumping and, again, I'm known at being very good at what I do. On those days, I'm able to get some of that job satisfaction back and carry me through a while longer.

>snip<
Well WESTEX93 I agree with all of the above, been there in every aspect. The IT stuff with Verizon Wireless and the Construction as well. Since my disability befell me. I was YOU in every aspect. I now realize my disability has been a God Send in many ways and forced me to slow down and focus on the whats and whens, focus on the who and why, focus on the TODAY.

Reading this forum and learning is teaching me patience. Realizing that I can and have done almost everything and also done nothing at the same time is frustrating and gratifying at the same time. Learning something each day and also teaching someone is my goal everyday. The hardest part of each day is being humble, I find this as my toughest challenge. I must say I am humbled each day by the talent I see on this forum. I only hope and pray that I may someday, before I pass that I also may be included with those here with talent as presented in the form of Guitars. Those beautiful pieces of God's woodwork that have been constructed to provide so many, the sounds of music.

So take peace in my saying it's okay to whine now and then.

The article brings to me the special take on those of past, who's trades made them who they are. Such as why someones name is Smith as an example.

Just my take on this.

Sincerely,
Mike

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