Official Luthiers Forum!

Can you compre the results you obtained with each re:
Ease of application, ability to fill, ability to sand and appearance. Do yo use laquer seal coat beneath each?
Thanks.

I have not used system 3. However I use Zpoxy for nearly all my fills. I do not use a seal coat under it, rather after I have leveled my fill with out sanding through to the wood I seal the zpoxy with Zinnzer's 100% wax free shellac Seal Coat.

I use single edge razors with rounded corners to apply the Zpoxy at 45 deg angle to the grain, over slightly lapping each previous pass. This will leaves small ridges that I sand off after the first coat cures 24 hrs.

I do the second coat the same way but from the opposing diaganal. Here again after 24 hrs I sand off the ridges first then lightly sand to level with out burning through.

I seal by spraying two light coats of the shellac. Then I lightly sand with 600p-800p clean with naptha and I am ready for the finish.

From what I have seen the main differance in the system 3 and Zpoxy is that the system 3 is near true clear, and the Zpoxy has an amber tint which I prefer.

By the way I am refering to the Zpoxy Finishing Resin and not the Zpoxy 5 min or 20 min adhisive epoxy. The finishing resin has a much lower viscosity with out having to cut with DA and flows into the pores much better. Pot life is longer as well about 1/2 hr to 45 min dependent on temp.

I have used West Systems on one guitar. (It's not one of your listed options, but I figure I'll chime in anyway.)

Ease of application: very simple. I spread it with some plastic card I got in some junk mail (like a credit card). Worked fantastic.

Ability to fill: worked fine. It took a couple of coats, but I probably spread it a lot thinner than I needed to. (Basically, I spread it around and then scraped off as much as I possibly could.)

Ability to sand: once it cured, it was no problem to sand.

Appearance: perfectly clear.

Seal coat: shellac, mixed myself from wax-free blonde flakes. Worked great.

This was my first stab at filling with epoxy, and it's a big improvement over the alternatives. I can't think of any reason not to use the West Systems again.

Where do I get west systems or zpoxy? I don`t see it in any of my catalogs and it sounds like the answer to a large problem! The fillers I`m using seem to only do half the job and I always end up with pin holes and pore blems in every finish that are the very devil to eliminate. I`d probably save the cost in lacquer and elbo grease on the first job.

Dale, I buy my West Systems at the local hardwood store. However, it's a pretty popular epoxy for making fiberglass in marine applications. If you live near a West Marine store, you could probably find it there. If not, West Marine sells it online. http://www.westmarine.com/

System3 has a trial kit for $25 that will do many guitars.

System 3 trial kit

On second thought they have changed the name of some of the materials in their trial kit. Anyone know if if it is the same stuff?

The old stuff works well. Not much pot time but looks good when dry and very clear. Fills good, but on my last one (bubinga) I had to use two coats. Sands nicely, but is very touchy about proper mixing. Applied it once and it never hardened past gooey... Talk about a mess.

System III has 2 products. I think is 112 and the other is 113 (going from memory.. so I might be a little off).

The 112 stuff has kind of an amber cast to it (much like light colored shellac) while the other is crystal clear.

As I recall I think Mike Doolin has a preference for one of these products over the other... you might want to check out his site. Again, going on memory, I seem to remember he likes the 112 better.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock has it right. Doolin recommended the SB-112 basically because the waterbornes dons impart any color to the guitar. The SB designates that this product is for use in making sailboards. That's how I remember which one to use.

I have used it only once, but it worked ok for me. Now I use one made by Bob Smith that I can get at the local hobby shop.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

If you are interested in Z-poxy finishing resin, you can get it here. It is part # PT-40. It is 2 bottles in the package, and these bottles should last you about 4 to 6 guitars.
Tracytl50736238568.9272453704

Hey guys! Thanks for the info. I now have several sources and some advice on usage. I`m not a green horn on using epoxy and polyester resins. I had a boat shop when fiber glass boats first hit the market in the 50s. Suddenly everyone who had a wooden boat wanted a fiberglass bottom coating! It didn`t take me too long to discover that fiberglass was not my bag! I`m sure I did atleast 100 of them and learned lots of Hard lessons along the way.( but I made a few bucks!)

I have used both and prefer zpoxy over west systems because of sandability and no other reason really. I'm sure they both do a good job of filling. Another thing I like about zpoxy is is a 1 to 1 mix unlike the system three stuff so zpoxy is much easier to mix.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I'm curious how much (roughly) epoxy you mix at one time to fill a body? And do you do the top at the same time as the back and sides?

I mix .5 oz .25 ox hardner, .25 oz base this is enough to 1 coat a moderate porus back. this will give you about 1/2 hr of work time. I cut that in half to work a side. I always work the back, allow to dry work one side allow to dry then work the other side and allow to cure over night. sand and repeat. I always do 2 coats if ther is moderate to large pores

Jerry,
I mix 1 tbs. at a time. And I also thicken the resin with colidal silica , to the consistancy of runny mayo! The addition of the silica makes sanding easier. It also dries clear.
Glen S.

Thanks MIchael and Glen. I'm sure I would have intuitively mixed up far too much. I tend to do that. I'm still curious about the top. Does it get the same treatment?

Thanks everyone

[QUOTE=Jerry Hossom] I'm still curious about the top. Does it get the same treatment? [/QUOTE]

You do not pore fill the top. Let me say that again, do not pore fill the top.

Colin

You can seal it with egg white if you like

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks Colin. How about shellac as a sealer for the top?

No Problem with Shellac Jerry

Thanks, all.

By the way, I use the Z-poxy finishing resin as a pore filler as well. It's the one part of my build process that I never think of trying to improve. It just works!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.