Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all.

I don't know much about the different pickup/piezo systems out there for acoustic guitar and I would be glad to hear your opinions on that subject.

I already had a bad experience with an iBeam from L.R.Baggs and my customer already has a Fishman he doesn't like.

So what do you guys like?

Thanks!

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I'm not a Fishman fan, but I'm curious as to what problems you had with the Baggs iBeam. I like that pickup quite a bit in the iMix system to compliment the Element, but not quite so much on it's own. I've also found it's tone to be a bit unpredictable on anything more than the most standard bracing and plate system, though it can sound great on some guitars. It's also very sensitive to placement - i.e., it can give a terribly unbalanced response if an edge is touching a brace.

The iMix is still my current favorite in the bang:buck ratio. The Element coaxial saddle transducer is much less tinny and quacky than the Fishman piezos, and more dynamic than the ribbon transducers in my experience. Their M1 active is pretty impressive too if the customer doesn't mind a soundhole pickup.

I've not heard the D-TAR Wavelength, but it appears to be a similar transducer system to the Element (which I like), but with more headroom and flexibility to tailor the sound than the Element active system. Hopefully Rick will chime in (and don't worry about sounding like you're jumping in to plug your products here - I asked the question and am curious ).

There are a lot of K&K fans around, but I've never liked them myself. They've always just sounded like disc top transducers have always sounded to me - not the best clarity or distinction, way too much mids and too low feedback resistance. Then again there are plenty who swear by them, so maybe I'm just not using the right preamps. Preamps - of course remember that's a necessary other half of the system.

You're obviously going to get a lot of opinions from a lot of different tastes. It might help to know what style of guitar this is, what the player's styles and goals are, what environments it will be used in, etc. There's no single perfect system, and this stuff is all important to guide your pickup choice.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Thanks for your precise response David!



Makes total sense!

The guitar is an OM that is used essentially live for finger picking and some strumming.

The problem I experienced with the iBeam was when playing live, it was amplifiying whatever sound coming out of the monitors, thus generating some sort of anying 'hum' or buzz. The tech support at L.R. Baggs told me this happens a lot with hand made guitars and that I should change the system...

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I've had a very good experience with the under-saddle pickup + line amplifier made by SC Laboratories. There's no built-in eq, and I've never found that it needed any. Playing guest spots on other people's PA systems, the sound man is always impressed that he doesn't need to do anything to get a decent sound. I'm not a finger-picker, so can only report on a bluegrass-strung guitar played quite heavily with a light-gauge pick, but it's always sounded to me like a louder version of my own guitar. It doesn't record well, but which UST does? Usual disclaimers.

i've got a highlander in an old yamaha and it sounds great.
i've also just put a wavelenght into the 8th guitar that i've built and i think it sounds really nice. same musical qualities as the highlander, but even more headroom.
the guy who's got the second guitar i built installed an lr baggs double barrel - ribbon under the saddle (2/3 of the final signal) and condensor mic (1/3). it sounds really good. but when we a-b'ed that and my latest guitar with the wavelength, i would have had a tough time telling you which guitar had the mic inside. that's meant to be a great compliment to the wavelength.
i also liked the wavelength's easy installation and the tone control. nice to have just a little of that on board.
phil

Take a look at Pick Up the World too. Run through a Baggs PADI they sound great and require minimal alteration of the guitar. Shoreline Music has a nice webpage comparing various pickups.
Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

lots of people dont seem to get on with fishman, but I have to say I've had great results with the matrix for years, and the infinity now seems to be doing the job admirably. LR Ibeams and elements too, all pretty much ok.

I find the amp to be such an important factor, that any pick-up through a nasty amp sounds awful, and almost any pick-up through a very good amp can be useable.

my own tastes are fishman mtx through an AER, i dont get on with mic's in guitars as the little diaphragm just seems to add nothing of value - detract if anything...probably just my cloth ears though!

opinions are like soundholes...and i'm always up for finding something better. Here in the UK we dont have the same amount of pick-ups (in fact most things guitar related) available so I'll be folowing this thread with a view to expanding the range I offer to customers.

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www.theguitarrepairworkshop.com

I'm another supporter of the K&K pure western mini....

K&K all the way....

Dual source for me, 1 x K&K mini and 1 x Takamine Triaxia (same as LR baggs M1) Soundhole pickup. Pickups run to a stereo jack, 1 x stereo cable carrying 2 active and a shared earth runs from the jack and then splits to a "Y" into 2 x mono cables which plug into the 2 inputs of a K&K 'Dual Channel PRO' preamp for blending.

The EQ is adjusted for each channel from inside the preamp. This is done by removing 1 x screw to access the mini pots and using the supplied screw driver that attaches inside the unit via Velcro. You set and forget for your chosen guitar and that makes good sense, once the blend is right for that guitar it's right and having the EQ inside the preamp means that no one can mess with it and it can't be knocked out of adjustment.

The K&K 'Dual Channel PRO' preamp has an easy to access external gain pot for each channel. This allows you to quickly bring either pickup to the front so it will dominate which is great if you need to cut through anytime as the M1 will certainly do that for you OK or you can also pull it back some and allow the K&K some dominance for finger style. Both great pickups in their own right but they really do work well as a team.

Cheers

Kim

I have found that Mic ing the guitar is the best from a recording standpoint and is also the most accurate for reproduction for the sound. Any type of mic that is INSIDE of the guitar is subject to vibrations from the player, ( a slight drag across the top or tap or worse ) as am example and will cause excessive white or scratch noise. Piezos all sound Quacky to me or appear to introduce some unwanted distortion.

I'm not sold on any of the acoustic pickups yet! I've done a lot of recording and they just don't sound right to me. Then again a GOOD mic may cost more than the pickup.

Just my .02cents worth on acoustic pickups VS playing into a GOOD microphone for amplified acoustic sound.

MK

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

Have you checked out what Shane at High Mountain has?
He could help you I'm sure.
Mike

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Mike Collins

Thanks a lot guys!

I'll be looking more into that later. For now my girlfriend is just about to give birth to my first child, a little daughter! She is three days late for now, so it can go at any time!

Thanks again for your suggestions, it's appreciated!

Wish me luck!

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)