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I was reading an old interview with John Grevinin published in the GAL magazine. He has a single shop, floor space 600 square feet, has 4 basic power tools. Radial arm saw, band saw, stationary belt sander, drill press. He has three routers.

This guy makes 45 guitars per year and is not excessively jigged up. One of the most interesting things he does is thin his wood using a router sliding on two rails. The wood that has been resawn on his band saw (he likes to buy slabs of wood cause its cheaper) to what looks like 1/4 inch or less, is passed under the rails, the router then makes a pass over the wood, flattening and thinning the plates and sides.

I was thinking that it was a kind of primative way of doing things until it occurred to me that he was cutting, not grinding, and never had to deal with clogged sand paper. This has me thinking, especially since I just broke the lovejoy connector on my abrasive planer for the third time.John Kinnaird38567.8032407407

Okay, here we go again. Thanks John, I'm so glad you posted this. I got a board, had the rails, and laid them down somewhere in my shop. I was looking for bolts to set the rails up on and well, that may have been a year ago. Okay, let's do something about it.

I too have a love/hate relationship with my abrasive planer. (Okay, some folks call 'em drum sanders) Cocobolo is my favorite tonewood, but I love to hate the clogging of brand new abrasives. Darn it's too expensive. At this point less resinous woods start looking better, much better.

Let's come up with a simple design, both build one and share our results. Whatd'ya say?

How about a staggered array of something like the Wagner Saf-t-planer? Each planing head would be held in a pillow block, and each shaft would have a belt pully. Spin them all with a single belt. (You know, "One ring to rule them all!")

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Okay, can you draw up some plans and get them to Tracy L. on the double? Grin. Hey, that sounds totally awesome. Lots of folks have those. Frank Ford is a fan of the Wagner.

Now back to John Greven, isn't the idea simplicity and productivity? I'm thinking simple, real simple. If you've seen Greven's unit it's fairly straightforward.

www.grevenguitars.com Hey John K. he's moving to a new shop! Hey, I wonder if he bought an abrasive planer too?www.grevenguitars.comDickey38567.9379398148

I have the same problem with clogged abrasives. I am using an old craftsman planer that I turned into a drum sander by turning a new drum/cutter head on my metal lathe. I usually start with 50 grit but even that clogs with rosewood. That router idea has some apeal but I HATE to listen to one run. I taught a cabinet making class for 20 years and it sets my teeth on edge every time I crank one up! Is there a quiet one out there? A question. How does he keep the wood in place? Double stick? Vacume?

ps Steve tells me you are working on a new method to attach necks and fret boards. Want to share? I`d like to see some pics.

I've got two routers that do a good job pretty quietly. One is a makita soft start and the other is a RIGID laminate trimmer that I got at Home Depot. I really like that RIGID tool. It is quiet, has variable speed and cost only a hundred bucks.

That ganged SAFE-T-Planer sounds good too.

Greven does not attach those plates to anything. He just slides them under the bars that support the router. He probably holds them down by hand, but it seems to me that a spring mounted roller would be a good thing. At any rate, he does keep things simple and did I mention that he makes over 40 guitars a year! How humbling.

Dale, right now I just bolt on the necks and fretboard extensions. I am considering a floating fingerboard with adjustable neck. Those designs are pending.

John

I just chuck my Wagner up in the drill press set the depth I want and in just a few minutes I can plane a back and set of side to a thickness that just needs a few light passes through the drum sander. Trying to reduce the total thickness amount with the drum sander takes too long!

The new Hitachi M12VC is the quietest router that I've used. I read in a magazine that it was the quietest in a group of routers tested, the group being PC, Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, etc. I bought one and they weren't kidding. It sounds like a dremel. It has plenty of power too. It's very well made. The only thing that I don't like about it is the lack of a locking collet so you have to use two wrenches to remove the bits. Other than that, I love it.

The quietest router I know of is Festool. All their tools are extremely quiet.

Do you get any tearout on figured wood with that wagner saf-t-planer?

John

Hi,

A few months ago I made a router planing jig much like the one the amazing Mr. Greven uses & it works quite well. This one also has height-adjustable vinyl hold-downs for wood intake & outtake, heavy aluminumn rails, all setup on a 3/4" flat birch-ply base plate.

It does the job very well. One thing though, using it - even very slowly & carefully - leaves very small grooves in the planed wood. It's not really a great problem & can be scraped flat with a bit of elbow grease. It may not be a problem at all if I had the time and money to experiment and find just the right router bit. I'm using just a standard straight 1/2" diameter bit. Maybe a mortising bit would be better. Any suggestions?

The best approach for me has been to use this jig to get the wood to within 1/32nd of where I want it, then move to the drum sander for a few light passes to get the wood to it's final thickness. If possible I'll try to get a few pictures together in a day or two.

Skip

Skip we would like to see pics of your setup. Can't seem to find Greven's at the moment, but I have seen it before. Simple affair.

What I'm wondering is adjusting depth of cut. I suppose you use the router depth guage rather than provide a way to adjust the table.

Yes Bruce, The router height adjustment determines the depth of cut for the whole affair. This does limit the use of this jig to relatively thin stock - no problem really. I'll see about taking some pictures & getting them posted - but - my computer at home is down at this time.

My wife's video card died in her computer & I gallantly (stupidly?) offered her my card as a replacement. My new replacement card is on mailorder from Newegg & should be here soon.

On another note, Bruce, it's great to see you taking part here again. You were missed, my friend.

Skip

Here's a link to a site that explains how to make make a router planer jig

Joe Volin

and extremely expensive!!!

One thing that helps some with abrasive clogging is feeding the board on an angle thru an abrasive planer. I'm sure that most of you are aware of this

John,

I have a rig like John Greven's and it does work. Like all tools, it has its' strengths and its' weaknesses. Having said that, my next major purchase will be a thickness sander.

By the way, John built in excess of 80 guitars last year and he really doesn't have a thickness sander. He's the most amazing builder I've ever met. If I had 1% of his talent, I probably wouldn't need a thickness sander either. You know what they say, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

How many hours per week do you suppose the 80 guitars represents?

Skip, I use a 1-1/8" mortising bit. It works well but you won't eliminate the surface irregularities, you'll just have less of them. They only take a minute or so to sand out with a r/o sander.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

John, to this point I haven't experienced any tearout problems...but I haven't tried anything like that Sapele you had. You are welcome to come over and give it a try if you don't already have one.

I do want to come over to see your shop Barry. How about this coming tuesday or wednesday.

Guys,
I use a Safety planer and it works great, but it was a 2 man job because of the feed in and out. I have now just found an alternative that I plan on using to help with keeping the board flat as it is fed through the safety planer. You should really check THIS out. Make sure you get the Green ones as the wheels roll both directions. I just bought some but haven't created the jig yet. I'll let you know how it works. I have heard reports form other forums that a safety planer can be used on the most figured wood with perfect results. I have no doubt that is true. I will just plane my boards down, then just use a RO sander to get the grooves out. Works like a charm!

Oh and by the way, we will soon be creating a jig that will allow you to clamp your fretboard to your neck with no locating pins. I don't want to give away too much until we have it developed, but it will be the slickest jig out there!
Tracy

Right now either day looks OK. Call me sometime over the weekend.

Tracy
That's a great idea, (the green wheels) and the locating jig sounds like a great idea as well. I could be in the market for one.

John