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Hello everyone,

I am seeking some information on the use of Maguiar's no 10 clear plastic polish, and how to use it with French Polished shellac. I have read that quite a few luthiers use it and have the following questions:

-I am guessing that people use it after the spiriting stage, and not instead of it. How long after spiriting can you apply the Maguiar's?

-I would like to hear from those who apply it by hand: Do you use a standard cotton cloth or a buffing cloth (the one from Villeda, which is sold at Canadian Tire stores up here in the North Country)? Do you simply sub it on, remove any residue and let dry? For how long do you let it dry?

Any other information on hand applying this product on French Polished shellac would be of great help.

Thanks in advance,

Pat

First off Spiriting off is a sub-procedure that is done though out the entire French polish boding process to level out each bodied session. It is not the glazing process that polishes the out the fully bodied surface. It is important you know the processes and what each processes job is to do a successful French polish. The process You are thinking of is the Glazing process.

So you should not use the Maguire’s #10 until you have completed all the way through the entire French polish process and allowed the instrument to cure for a week or more.

Now to give some personal thoughts about using a polishing compound on a French polished instrument. Please don’t take this as a criticism.

The use of polishing compound in French polishing in the old world since of French polishing is a shortcut to high gloss. The same high gloss can be achieved with a dedicated glazing routine. It will take many more sessions but will produce a harder film better lasting sheen than polishing out with a polishing compound. In other words the more glazing you do the higher the sheen. There is really no reason to ever need to buff out with a polish compound a French polish finish except to save time and in mine and other well know French polishers opinion you would do so at the expense of the hardness of the film.

Now how to use it.

After your film has cured a week or so you use it pretty much just like car wax. You spread it on a small area, allow to haze and buff off either with a polish cloth or a power buffer. It only takes about 2 min to haze. Do not allow it to fully dry out.

what it does.
There is micro abrasives in sulution that as you buff cut the higher ridges or scratches to polish out the surface. here again I have to say this in not needed if you glaze to the disired sheen as the muneca during glazing will achive an equal or greater sheen with out the need of abrasive of any kind at any stage ever touching the film. yes It will take more elbow grease but will produce a better finish.

Pat this may be of aid to you then I am sure, someone else
A brief Basic French polish procedures description:

Spit Coat: A 1# cut of shellac applied to surface as a primer for pumice pore filling and or as a primer for first boding session if other pore filling technique is used prior to Spit Coat.

Boding: the application of a 2# cut of shellac, solvent and lubricating oil via the muneca in figure eight motion to build film thickness.

Stiffing or Spiriting Off: The process of using the muneca with a higher solvent load and no added shellac in firm quick stokes from one end of the surface to the other. This process melts higher ridges left by the muneca during boding sessions and removes lubricating oil from the surface of the film also left behind in the previous bodying session. If done between every boding session has the ability to level the film as it is being built thus requiring no abrasive leveling after boding is completed.

Glazing: While some what like boding but with a light load made up 1# cut of shellac, a tad more solvent than during boding and a little to lubricating oil applied via the muneca in combination of circular and long strokes in a quicker and somewhat lighter hand than boding. Eventually all long strokes the further in glazing sessions you get. The purpose of this procedure is to polish the built up film to desired sheen.

I think a confusion arose when I used the term "spiriting" instead of glazing. My mistakes comes from the fact that I have seen it a couple of times used for that purpose, and despite the fact that you see "glazing" a lot more often, I thought they were interchangeable. It was a designation mistake rather than procedural lack of knowledge.

Now, I have been doing French Polishing for years, and the results are pretty good indeed. The reason I want to give Maguiar's product a try is because I have read a lot of articles from very well know luthiers who mention using it. I am neither looking for a shortcut or easy way out, but since it is often used, I want to see what it brings to the party. The aim of this thread is not about how to French Polish (I can do that pretty well, thank you very much ) but rather to find more about how people use this product, and what they think of it. I get from you answer that you are not a fan...

I will still give it a try though, and from you description, it seem pretty straigthforward.

Thanks for the info.

Pat

I have never used #10 and am not that aquainted with it. I have used #7 a few time but as I mentioned I can achive just as fine sheen just by glazing more. Now I have also used med fine, fine and extra fine Menzerna compound on the buffer wheel and with an electric hand held high speed buffer. If you do this be sure to use a new wheel buffer pad for each grit. I prefer the wheel as i have better feel for the film heat up than with a hand held.

3m also makes a great liquid buffing compound "Perfect-it". It comes in three grits work it the same way you would the Meguire's

i know my opinion is a bit bias to the the Old world FP process and it is more work to achive the higher gloss but If I was to choose a polish and buff process to use I would use Menzerna on the wheel. but requirs close attention the heat build up

I've recently bought some rottenstone from LMI. It is an extremely fine grey powder and you rub it from a cloth mixed with some oil. I didn't get a chance to play much with it, but a quick try seems to improve the shine nicely.

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Build log

Hey guys

I don't like to use the buffer (I have a bit of a phobia of power tools... I try to stick to hand tools as much as possible, even if it means that it takes longer to build the guitar), so I am planning to apply it by hands. Rottenstone involves oil, so I would rather stay away from that as well. I normally use as little oil as I can throughout the process (I recently switched from olive oil to walnut oil, so far so good). I will give Maguiar's a try and let you guys know how it turns out. I only intend to keep using it if I see a noticeable difference. I try to keep things as simple as I can.

Thanks for the feedback,

Pat

Just trying to clarify what's been said....

As far as I know, Meguiar's #7 contains no abrasives. It's for removing any excess oil and polishing the instrument/enhancing its shine. On the other hand (as mentioned) Meguiar's #9 & #10 include abrasives. I believe "Perfect It" contains abrasives and is comparable to Meguiar's #9 or #10. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

All Swirl removal and Glazing componds, all grades of polishing compounds contain abrasive components. Swirl Removal compounds are more agressiv and glazes are less. Just like a car wax it is the micro abrasive particals that removes the oxidation and polishes the finish. You cant feel the abrasives hardly in Mg #7 or finess-it Fine polish compounds. You can feel the abrasive in MG#9 swirl removal and finess-it swirl removal compounds

Just for general information; Maguir's numbers are not in suqential order in relationship to the agrsivemess of the grit. The number is just a numer assigned as they developed the product

I have never used #10 so I don't know anything about it but #7 is a ultra fine High Gloss glazing compound and #9 is a more agressive Swirl remover. Before I owned a high speed wheel buffer I polished all my nitro and waterbone finishes with Maguir's. I sanded through micromesh 8000 on a ROS then moved to MG#9 by hand then MG#7 using a power car buffer. this worked pretty good but not near as good as the high speed wheel and med, fine and ultra fine Menzerna compounds

As far as walnut/olive oil goes, you might want to use walnut early on and switch to olive late in the process. Bob Millburn told me that a film can emerge on the surface months later if you use walnut all the way through. Just a thought.