Official Luthiers Forum!

FIRST POST YAY!!!!-jumps up and down-
formalities aside, i have some questions for you luthiers out there. I'm going to be starting my first acoustic guitar in about 3 weeks. I'm probably going to get the guitar book by kinkead (is this an ok book?). I have a really nice spruce soundboard from a piano, and a lot of seasoned walnut. Would walnut backs, side, neck, fingerboard be acceptable in terms of sound quality? Another thing, I've heard people say that you need to radius guitar tops and backs(why are they called flat tops then?) If this is true how do i radius them? (I've heard a lot about a thing called a go-bar? what in the world is this contraption?) Sorry for all the questions

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-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

Howdy Fiddlernut!

Welcome to the OLF! You'll find it to be a great resource with many people generously sharing their expertise. They also maintain a large archive of discussions. The search feature seems to think differently from me, but the stuff is there when you hit on the right phrase. I would also point you the video and picture tutorial section (near the bottom of the home page). I'm sure others will chime in later, but here's what I know for what it's worth. I have a walnut guitar started, so I hope it's good. I have not heard of walnut for necks or finger boards, but I'm not the guy to answer wood questions.

Radiusing the tops is done on some guitars but not others. The top of a "flat top" is not radiused. The easiest way to radius a top is to get a radiused dish (basically a very shallow bowl about 2 feet across), line it with sandpaper, and rub the edges of your sides around in it for a while. I think the backs of guitars are always radiused (???). Usually a tighter curve than the tops. I usually hear something around 15' radius for backs and 25'-30' for tops. No absolutes though.

A go bar is used for clamping. You also need a go bar deck to go with it, and a bunch more go bars too. Basically, a go bar deck is a table with open sides and a bottom attached to it. (A few layers of plywood connected by 4 pieces of all thread work well. So does the lower level of my workbench.) You put parts that need to be clamped on the bottom and wedge them in place with a go bar (a piece of fiberglass rod or wooden stick that is flexed and placed between the wood to be clamped and the "ceiling" of the deck). When creating a radiused top, it pretty slick to have the radius dish on your lower support, so your top and braces get glued together at the proper curvature.

None of this is the only way to do things, but it's work well and is easy enough that even a guy like me can end up making a pretty good guitar.

Good luck with your first.
Miek

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Mike Lindstrom

Hello Fiddlernut, welcome to the OLF!

I guess I'll step up first.... (edit: darn it! Miek beat me to it.... )

Yes, the Kinkead book is a good one, but so are the Cumpiano/Natelson, Sloane, and Willis books. Also, I'd thoroughly recommend John Mayes DVD's (set of 12) and reservedly recommend Frank Finocchio's DVD set (he misses out quite a lot of steps, including neck making, but there's a lot of good basic stuff in there). Also, if you're going to get serious about lutherie, you will probably want to invest in a set of 5 of "The Big Red Book of American Lutherie" published by the GAL organization, which you will probably also want to join, as well as A.S.I.A. Finally, you should spend several weeks reading through the archives on this wonderful forum. There is a wealth of knowlege, expertise, and first hand experience to be gleened - all for free!!

Great on your spruce find for the soundboard. I wouldn't use walnut for a neck or fingerboard though. It doesn't have the right strength-to-weight ratio for a one-piece neck, however you could use it in a multi-piece neck lay up. It's nowhere near tough enough to be used as a fingerboard - you need to use a very dense wood for that, like ebony, rosewood, etc. Most people use mahogony for the neck, although not all. You will want to use quartersawn wood for most of your guitar building (there are some notable exceptions to this rule, but for a beginner, you probably don't want to mess with flatsawn wood up front!).

You don't HAVE to radius the back of top of a guitar. They are known as flattops because relative to archtops, they are pretty flat! You could indeed invest your time and a little money to make a go-bar deck. That, plus some dished forms with the right radius, and you'd be in business to make the back and top domed to your requirements. However, you don't NEED a go-bar deck to do this. You could do it simply by using clamps (as shown on the Finocchio DVD). A go-bar deck certainly makes life easy though, and I'd recommend you make one. Do a search on the OLF using the keyword "Go Bar" or "go-bar" (whatever) and you'll find tons of information about them, plus lots of photos of ones people have made.

Do you have a woodwork shop and tools? What kind of tools do you have? What kind of guitar are you thinking of making? Do you realize how much it's going to cost (for the tools, jigs, hardware, wood, glue, etc.)? So many questions......

Cheers for now,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

First of all, welcome to the forum!
I am more of a "show me" kind of guy and dont get a lot from books, no matter how well written. Perhaps you are better at it than I am? I would reccommend getting the 5 dvd set of how to build a guitar from Frank Finoccio or perhaps the John Mayes DVD's on how to build a guitar. You will find yourself going back for reference over and over and ithelps when you SEE them do it rather than just telling you about it. The finoccio DVD's run about $125 and are well worth the price.

Of course any of us here will be glad to help get you out of jams and help you to build a good guitar. As Dave mentioned, be sure you are aware of the cost of tools, jigs, and time you spend making jigs before you start. The price of building a quality guitar can get overwhelming before you know what happened.

Walnut is an excellent tonewood. I am building 2 walnut guitars right now and I love the tone they give. The seasoned spruce you got from a piano may pose somewhat of a problem, but if you post some pictures of it we can help decide if it is acceptable.

Either way you go, be sure to have fun and share what you learn with us!

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Reguards,

Ken H

walnut makes a fine neck, one piece or laminated .. its just heavier than hawg .... been done many a time. depends what the spruce looks like, but could be great .. it will have been aged and played on for years !!!

On the FB - ditch the walnut idea and spend 5 bucks and get a B grade EIrw Fb .. or 10 for a A grade. They are cheap, and sound great.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Hello all and thanks for the comments. I'll be starting the guitar on the 14th and going to luthier supply on the 20th (of june). So i'll be picking up some stuff there. I have access to a full woodworking shop (looking fearfully at the 18" bandsaw.) I got access to a tablesaw tons of chisels and files, a planer, a drill press, clamps out the wazoo,sanders scroll saw and tons of space to it in! All the wood is free, so all my money will be going to parts and jigs. It's going to be whatever guitar the plans in the book have for me lol

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-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

One more question then i'll stop bothering you (for five minutes )
Is there anyway to heat HHG without buying a 60$ pot to do it in?

_________________
-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

Yet another question (i'll be done soon i promise
Is it possible to get a blade to cut mop or abalone on a scroll saw?

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-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

Yes, you can use the standard 3/0 or 2/0 jeweler's fret saw blades in a scrollsaw - the length is the same as ordinary scrollsaw blades, but you might need an adapter to accept blades with no "tangs" (not sure what they are called) - most good scrollsaws accept both types of blades.

You can buy 3/0 blades from Otto Frei here.

However, I have to ask why you want to use a scrollsaw? With a motorized scrollsaw, you will gain speed, but lose accuracy (a LOT of it).

For manual inlay work, you would be much better off buying a good high-quality jeweler's fret saw. Get one with a top adjustment screw to tighten/loosen the blade if you can. The ones they sell these days don't have this feature. I bought my vintage one from Chuck "The Duke of Pearl" - he had a bunch of them for sale at our last NCAL meeting. I'm sure he has more - give him a call.

Cheers,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Fiddlenut, Welcome. Sounds like you are seriously set up for this adventure. Good for you.

I use a Parent's Choice baby bottle warmer to warm my hide glue. It has 3 settings, #2 works perfectly. It varied by only 2 degrees over an hour, so you don't have to worry about it cycling too warm or too cold, which is what my hot pot was doing.

Don't mean to be rude, but do you have a first name you could share with us? Its easier to remember. You don't have to change your login ID, just add it as a signature on bottom of your posts. You do that in the User Control Panel.

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Aoibeann

Wow you guys are helpful! I can annoy you with all my questions and you still don't get mad!
Aoi: is this the bottle warmer your talking about?http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3555185
I think I will just order my inlays precut. I'm not gonna worry about a go-bar, i have access to about 70-80 bar clamps and many many many other ones.

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-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

Welcome to OLF, Fiddlernut! That's the bottle warmer I have, and it works great. I keep mine set at just above 4 and it keeps the glue right at the right temp as long as I let it stay on. The only thing you have to do is make sure you don't let the water cook off. I add a little every once and a while, and it heats right back up in a couple of minutes. You'll probably have to experiment to find the right setting, as I bet they are all a littlle different.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Yup, that's the one I use.

Bar clamps have their use, but the idea of dropping one on a body or even plates makes me nervous. They are heavy and can cause a lot of damage. Any chance you have a couple dozen cam clamps in the shop?

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Aoibeann

I'm confused I have the Kikhead book and am just starting using his plans. He uses the go bar deck through the construction, also I don't understand radius dishes for guitar making surely you want a graduated radius not part of a hemisphere. Cumpiano does this by shaping the braces, and Kinkhead makes a dishes including different radii, am I missing something?

Cheers

John

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

A couple more questions (forget the book, i'll just use you guys ^_^)
Someone mentioned a three piece neck with walnut in it. What other woods would be good (how about red oak?)
And second what size metal pipe should i use for bending the sides (i wanna use a pipe and a torch cus i'm cheap) What metal should i use steel or copper?

_________________
-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

I've split a bit of mahogany as it wasn't wide enough and added a bit of beech to widen it hope it works

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Well, i decided to splurg and buy my neck and fingerboard!
Is spanish cedar ok for my first neck? and is 1 x 3-1/4 x 24 big enough for a one piece?
Second question How hard is grandillo to work?

_________________
-They made me do this-
My name is Matthew Luce

You'll need a piece for the heel block, either a piece that's 3"x3"x4" or a board long enough to give you a block that size.

Smartflix.com has a great selection. They are about $10 to rent and they will cut you some slack if you rent a set. The rental fee inexpensive enough to get a couple of Frank's, John's, and Robbie's for a preview. They each have a different style of building. Check them out to see who works best for you and then take the plunge. If you don't want to go that route, spend some time surfing YouTube. You'll find several great videos there, a couple of pros have posted tutorials. In the mean time, see what your library has gathering dust on the shelf. If they don't have anything, see if they will do an interlibrary loan for you.

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Aoibeann