Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi
I am an amateur builder. I recently built a guitar for a friend who took it to a guitar shop. The shop really liked the guitar and said that they would like to sell my guitars on a commission basis (20% - seemed good to me). Just the thought of having one of my guitars in a shop fills me with great pride anyway.
I'm in the process of building a guitar for the shop and wanted to try and make it stand out from the crowd a little. It is an 'OM' type body with Claro Walnut B&S and Englemann top. The Headplate, Fretboard and bridge are ebony and the Binding is Koa. It will also have a brown herringbone purfling.

What I'm really not sure about is the scroll work on the fretboard and that is what I want your opinions on. Is it too much? It is made from Koa, Gold MOP and Paua abalone. I used the Koa to compliment the binding and the rosette. It does have the intended effect, ie, It really does stand out from the crowd - but is it a selling point??

The fretboard isn't attached yet and I'm really not sure what to do. Of course, things like inlays are always subject to differing views but I really would appreciate your comments. Thanks.

- Mat

Mat, I think it looks great! And I think that, if anything, showing off your "ornimentation" capabilities on a well made / decent sounding guitar will draw a new group of potential customers & "differentiate" you a bit. You may get commisions for "just like that one, without all the bling" but also "just like that one, but a different body style". Just my thoughts. By the way, you are going to bind the neck end, aren't you?

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Dave
Milton, ON

Mat, I think that strikes the perfect balance between too little and way too much. It's fantastic, and the colors you chose are especially nice.

Yeah what the others said. I typically don't like much in the way of inlay on a guitar but I really like yours - very nicely done! I also like the way you used the Koa - very pretty.

For what it's worth, I like it very much. Perhaps more importantly, I think it will serve the purpose of making the guitar stand out from the crowd and some people will love it and be willing to pay more to have it.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

The fretboard and inlay, I like. The bridge, I don't like a bit. I'm not a traditionalist, but that just doesn't come across as having any flow or continuity to the rest of the design in my opinion. Differentiating yourself is good, but so many designs come across to me as over-stretching for a new design just for the purpose of being different. I like new designs when they come across with some sort of natural flow or harmony of design, and dislike them when they seem to intentional and contrived.

Please don't take it as an insult - it's strictly a matter of personal taste (and you were foolish enough to ask for honest opinions ). To me it also rings too closely to the style of Grammer guitars or a Norlin era Dove bridge. For many this may carry association with a less than ideal era of guitar design and production.

Then again, some folks may love it.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

I`m with David.The inlay is nice,the bridge just doesn`t seem to work.
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Mat - it looks very nice to me - not too much but enough detail to show something most guitars don't have. I like the bridge too...I wouldn't change a thing....

How about a pic of the Walnut back?


Laurie

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

you might carry some inlay motif to the bridge to tie the elements together.....

I say, "hang it up in there...it'll sell"! It's a beautiful guitar, and I think Mario's onto something about a little tasteful bridge inlay...

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Mario?

Aaaarghh! Another one of those "I'm just an amateur" people who comes along and makes it look easy.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Mmm.. I guess I'll go out on a limb and be the odd one out here. I personally don't like it a whole lot from an aesthetic standpoint. I personally like my guitars a little more muted and balanced in terms of design and ornamentation. The inlay itself looks great, but in combination with that bridge shape, it really makes it look a bit too over-the-top for my taste. To me, it takes away from the elegance of the instrument.

Once again, this is just one man's opinion. I'm not harping you on your abilities or your build. It's just one other way of looking at it. Do keep in mind that I'm quite the minimalist in all things artistic, though. I think you could sort've compare this guitar to a B.C Rich electric or a resonator... you either love the look or hate it, either way it leaves very little room for a middle ground. If it were I, I would choose between eliminating the inlay or the bridge in order to have a more neutral looking instrument at least for my first few presented. I think when it comes to a business and sales, it's best to make every effort to appeal to as wide and audience as possible at least until one establishes a niche for himself with a good consumer demand for it.

Just my 2 cents.

I like the inlays but bridge is definetley not pleasing to my eyes.

I see a successful enterprise happening. Great work. Go with the inlay, it is wonderful.

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

I see the point on the end of the fret board...and it's my guess you were trying to match that somewhat by pointing the 'lower bout end' of the bridge (the point of the bridge that's on the centerline of the top). You might achieve the same thing you were looking for...and then some...by softening that point up...take it way down...make it smaller. By ratio it's bigger than everything else on the bridge....commands the eye right to it.

Bear in mind...I haven't even finished my first guitar. In fact I am stuck on the bridge design...and a few other things...

Anyway...if you like it...march with it...after all...it's your eye that matters most.

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There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

G'day Mat

Don't take any notice of these blokes - they're just luthiers.

We aren't the ones who'll be forking out the folding stuff for your instruments.

Put the same post on an acoustic guitar players forum and see whether their responses
correspond with the ones you've had here.

You may find that the better players will be buying with their ears and hands - not they're eyes.

Bob

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

The inlay is very nice, Lose the points and small curves on the bridge and fretboard. From a pure geometric standpoint the soft curves of the body will rock with the straight lines of the fretboard and a rectanglular bridge. The braces in the sound hole will carry this theme. The soft curves of the inlay enhance the body. The fretboard point and the BATMAN bridge need to go.

YOU asked for honest opinions. This is how I see it, Points work best in asymetrical applications like flames, and yours is not becoming to my eyes.

Just my .02 cents

Otherwise, A very nice build and go with your gut feelings and your own eye for the art in your design.
Sincerely,
Mike

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

I really like the whole design, inlay, bridge, and fretboard end. Then again, I like dang near everything from the wild and abstact to the traditional, so don't rely on my critique for anything. Though, I think it serves its purpose quite well in fact. Many people are saying they feel this part is good, but that part is too much, others say the opposite. If you were to hang one guitar up on a wall for people to see, I think having many different features on it is best as they can see and choose which features they prefer on their own instrument. Whether they just want a traditional style with the inlay or they want a blank fretboard with that bridge. In having everything you show what options you can offer in a single instrument. Obviously, if you knew you could hang up ten guitars in the shop then it would be different, but to start with the one, I like the idea of showing what can be done and what options people can pick and choose from. Anyhow, just how it occured to me. Best of luck and congrats, it truly is some excellent work. Jason

Guys - Thanks so much for your comments. Seems like the bridge has opened more debate than the fretboard!!
Reading your replies, it's just struck me that my concerns with the look of the guitar may well have been with the bridge and not the inlay afterall. When I looked at it, something just didn't sit right and i just assumed it was the inlay because it was so different. I'm gonna have another look at that bridge and see if I can improve it - I agree it's not quite right.

Laurie, here's a pic of the Walnut back. There was a topic a few days back about whether to use a back seam or not - here's my answer.

Thanks again

To my eye, the points on the bottom of the fret board and the bridge clash with the curves of the body. The inlay I could go either way on. I'm not a fan of the "Tree of Life" inlay on fret boards, and this at first glance reminds me of this. The workmanship looks to be really good, and as a show piece for your skills then this could be a great selling point. Without seeing the whole instrument, it's hard to say whether their is some continuity that ties it all together.

There will be people that love it, and others that don't, and thats OK. You can never please everyone, nor should you try to. If what you come up with pleases you, and at least one other person willing to part with some cash, then you've accomplished your goal, and hopefully both you and the purchaser are happy with the result.

Good luck.

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Allen R. McFarlen
Barron River Guitars & Ukuleles
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

I think the inlay is good. It isn't a tree-of-life which I think should only go on banjos or bowl back mandolins. Your instrument is going to be hanging in a shop and you need something to get the customer to pull it off the wall and try it. While it is true that the best players will buy for the tone, they won't know what the tone is unless they try it. Having some sort of visual "grab" could make a big difference.

In a music store, your main competition is going to be Martins and Taylors. Customers are going to expect something a little extra from a custom guitar that says this is a hand crafted instrument. Your inlay should do that.

I agree with most of the others that the bridge is wrong for that guitar. It looks like a flying bat. If the guitar were a double Venetian cut away, that bridge would work well. I would go with a more muted style or even a simple pyramid bridge. The pyramid bridge says "elegance".

I want to also mention that the most important thing is that the fit and finish be almost perfect. I've seen guitars that had some fancy inlay but, on closer inspection, the binding wasn't even, the miters on the purfling had gaps and there were some unfilled pores. This made me think that the builder should have spent his time getting those things right and not tried to distract you from them with some bling. I'm not saying that your instrument has these flaws. I'm saying that it can't have them.

Where's Batman!

Firstly, let me say that I applaud your desire to try to create something with visual interest, beyond the normal stuff we see every day. You've obviously put in a great deal of effort with this. That said....

I would have to agree on the overall balance of the design features as some have said. The combination of the inlay and the bridge shape is a bit too much for my eye. I like the inlay, but would have to agree with David Collins' assessment of the bridge. There's different, and there's *too different*. I think also the end of the fretboard adds to that discordant feeling...another detail with a lot going on jammed in there. It kind of all gets muddled in together and becomes a bit overwhelming (for me).

The other thing, (and this is also personal opinion, to be taken with a grain of salt) is that the inlay would have been better a bit farther up on the fretboard. Why do I say this? Because it brings the visual balance of the instrument down very very low. There's this big box down there already, with a nice hole in it with some cool inlay around the hole. Then there's this long stick attached to it, so it's already visually weighted toward the box. If the inlay had been farther up the fretboard, it might have helped to balance out the overall visual weight, and given the whole instrument more visual appeal. But aesthetic design is personal, and what can be appealing to some will be tacky for others. That's why some like a Style 45 guitar, and others hate it. Some folks are really into all the bling, and others prefer a more austere approach.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

this bridge is reminiscent to one Petros uses.

Currently on one he's asking $35,000, the Yellow Rose.

I like your guitar.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I know nuthin 'bout nuthin but since the bridge brought out so many comments... i wonder if it's because it's sortta inverse of the fretboard end? Try carrying the same cut down to the bridge and see if that makes a difference. You'll probably just have a big ol' moustache there instead... but i tend to like the fretboard.