Official Luthiers Forum!

I was looking at the archives this morning and realized that next month the OLF will be 5 years old!

What got me interested in the archives was Michael's comments about the early OLF and how things were in the beginning.

So..... I wanted to start a thread for the early members to tell us all about the early days. Lance would you please tell us how you got the idea to start the OLF? Actually anything that anyone wants to share from the early OLF would be of great interest to me.

It looks like Uncle Bob, aka Zootman (RC Tonewoods) was the very first poster.

Here is a link to the earliest OLF cave paintings that I can find...... And man you guys sound like a bunch of........ great guys back then......

http://65.254.85.186/offical_luthiers_forum_archives/2003/Sept_2003/tocproto.htm

Hesh if my memory serves me well I believe Lance and I met on the 13th Fret forum. We exchanged e-maiils and posts about building. I remember Lance telling me that was starting a forum and if I would check it out. Lance can correct me if I'm wrong. He's a lot younger and probably has a better recollection than I do.

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1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Well, as I recall, there were a lot less people here back in the day, and I was a good bit younger.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I came in late the first year very near the first anniversary. I was amazed at the way I was accepted as a member of the community from the first day. You all can blame Don Williams for directing me here. I was buying wood from Don and during a phone call he suggested I drop by. It was vastly different than any forum I had ever participated on or even seen. I can’t remember all the original members but among them were Bruce Dickey, Steve and John Kinnaird, Matt Gage. Tim McKnight, Howard Keepler, Bob Cefalu, John How, Stan Thompson, Sullivan Wells, John Hall, Mike Mahar, Russ Wren, Tracy Leveque, Rod True, Mattia Valente, Alan Carruth, Mike Collins, Roy Ott and a few other sorry If I left you out.

I remember finding it but I don't remember how. It might have been a link from Don Williams' site (if he had one) or it might have been a blind google search for luthier.

I do know that I'm the one who told Al Carruth about it and that might be my most positive contribution.

If I recall, the flavor of the place was that there were more how-to postings. But, since many of us have been doing this for awhile now, those have declined and we tend to talk more about the "Whys" of things.

I remember Lance answering a question I had on the MIMF in early 2004, and that is when I got invited to come over to the OLF. Never looked back, and have received lots of great information and tips from this place. Robbie O'Brien had also joined about that same time. I remember we only had about 100 to 150 members when I joined. Some members I never hear from any more is Tim Withers and Karl Batschke. I wonder how they are doing now. Anyway, it has been a great place to learn and grow in Luthurie. Thanks to all for making this place so great!

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Well I am still waiting for Lance and all the other original geezers to weigh-in here and set us straight.........

Well, I'm not one of the "Old Geezers" but I was here for OLF 1.0.

Paul Davis may have also been one of the original 100. Sure do miss seeing his snoopy avatar in the que.

Man that was poor forum software (no offence Lance ) I seem to remember Tracy telling me about it in an email. I was asking him about Olson Plans, he told me Lance got some from Bruce Dickey. If memory serves me correctly, that was fall of 2004. I didn't post much because I couldn't really figure out how the software worked and for me, I didn't like the scrolling style of the software.

But, there was lots of great folks (many many more great folks now) in the early days. Again, I did way more reading than posting. Most posts were filled with exuberant encouragement. Some towel snapping and lots of laughter. There was just something fresh about the OLF. I found myself becoming drawn to the posts both for their friendly nature and knowledge of luthiery especially the "figuring out" aspect. There always seemed to be folks willing to figure something out, even if they didn't know how to do it. Some trial and error but also some ingenious methods. Who knows if they were original or not but it sure was cool.

If memory serves me correctly, the first version of the OLF did not have picture capabilities. Words were really relied upon in order to paint the picture. Detail was very important.

Anyway, Version 2 (the former software), launched either Late 2004 or early 2005 and it was sooooo coooool. We had pictures and some funky smilies to play with.

I think that's where a lot of the commrodery grew. There was still only about 150 members and really about 60-80 that actively posted. Such a small group really got to know each other. I remember when Lance was so pumped that we were approaching 300 members. That was so cool. I think we scared the poor guy off though (same with #1000, a Canadian if I'm remembering right).

People became interested in each other for more than their luthiery skills or what they could bring to the table. It had a lot more to do with caring for each other THEN working on our guitar skills. People really felt like they could share their other interests with the group, like their Home Team (football, baseball etc) or the birth of a child, or graduation from school or their car etc... It was as if building guitars was just the door that opened us all up to each other and allowed some very cool relationships to form. The internet is a strange and wonderful place where one can learn about so many different thing and share information from all over the world in nearly real time. The OLF had its own corner of cyberspace and it was growing by leaps and bounds. I'm sure there were two aspects that kept people coming back. First of course the guitar building information, and also the friendships and friendliness of the members.

In a world that generally holds secretes between competing vendors, guitar makers have got to be the most sharing and giving of creators, producers, artists, inventors... out there. This I think is really the foundation of not only the OLF but luthiery as a whole. A big for anyone and everyone who has passed on a method, idea, jig, or shared materials to allow someone else to see a dream fulfilled.

Over the past 5 years, there have been countless dreams fulfilled here on the OLF and that number is only growing exponentially as we serge forward with new ideas in design (bevels, reverse kerf linings, double tops etc...) jigs (Tracy and Co. way to go!) and methods.

Dream on OLFer's, Dream on!

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I think I just sneeked into that first 100, I remember that when I joined (OLF 1.0) I doubled the number of non-North American members, Mattia was the only other member from outside the North American continent. It did seem then that there was far more of the innovative 'how to' stuff and that it did seem more of a conversation among good friends. But of course stuff changes and as the numbers have grown the style was bound to change and the membership evolve and change.

Why don't you see so much from the earlier members? Well as has been said there are just so many times you can answer the same thread over the years as the same questions get asked over and over. So now like many others I just check in and only open the threads that appeal to me. A lot of forum traffic for me now takes place off forum in PMs or e-mail with a number of members.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I have been on since the beginning or few weeks after. This was just a few days after I came home from Galloups school, which I am partial to and highly recommend to those looking for school or training.

After I built 6 or 7 guitars I wasn't satisfied so went to Maine with Pantheon and then worked for Bill Moll (who is like a bro. and my go to mentor and my boss). Thing is, I went to Maine and then with Bill from relations and questions on this site. One guy went to school with moved to Maine with his parents and asked me if knew of a builder in that area. I didn't (knew very little about other builders then) so I asked here and advised about Dana's shop. Matt went to work for them and then called me about going there. I called Dana, and then since I was semi retired,I sold the house, business interest and went to Maine for a few months. Bill had posted here about ASIA and when I was moving back to OK, I decided to stop and then moved to Branson, MO. I called Bill just before Christmas of 05' and after the first of the year, went to work for him and the rest is history, and the best part of the journey since started building. Demanding boss, but dang well worth it. No better teacher and one I have thougt would make an outstanding school (my opinion and not anything he is thinking of so don't hear what I am not saying)

Folks I remember from the very beginning: Bruce Dickey, Zootman (previously Bob Cef), Matt Gage, Mario, Paul Shulte, John Ostoff(sorry about spelling if wrong John), Paul Woolson, Think Brock (if not beginning only a few months after) Don Adams, David Bland, John Howe, Tim Mcknight. I am sorry if missed someone, as it was five years ago and I have trouble remembering stuff 5 seconds ago. Some left and guess quit building, or maybe just lerk here now. Many of us used to post a lot, but now not so much. Most of my post were during the first 2 years or so, now not so much. I guess we got busy with the shop work, just don't have the time we used to. I tend now only to go to post of questions haven't seen a bunch of or want more info. on or to go to vendors. There was a point where I lost interest and didn't come in much and think this is reason lot of older folks moved on. This was part of the growing big time stage and so much were post that had nothing to do with building and just getting a high posting number. Folks would ask a question and then get a bunch of "answers" of I don't know the answer, but someone will come along who will. I never understood why if not know the answer why would post that. So lost interest and was away for about a year for most part. When came back looking more every day, I couldn't believe the amount of growth and how many folks had come in.

Things have changed so much and hard to explain. Much of it noted above with who is here, questions and answers etc. Some changes not so good, but for the vast majority of things much better. When it is just a few folks of maybe 25 or few more, different than with few thousand (or however many here now) When started most post were how to and tech questions and since only a few and most were builders with experience or had some sort of training different in how asked and answered. Can't explain it fully, just different. Had a chat room soon after with scheduled topics. It didn't last to long because of interest lacked and not many showed up. Too bad it was a great learning tool as was the online classroom (started by Craig Lavin) on an inlay class. Again to bad as I think this was or could be a great way for folks to get in time instruction on varied aspects of building.

"if my memory serves me correctly" ( yes I used to watch iron chef... )

I was posting a lot on the 13th fret, and Lance invited me here. Once I came over it was a no brainer to keep up with this community especially, since everyone seemed so friendly. It's had its ups and downs, but it's been way more ups then downs given how humans normally behave in a group!
If I missed an emotion let me know..

This place is great. Happy Birthday OLF!! We should have an OLF party. I'll bring pearl!!!



Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I'll bring Ellie May and Hesh can bring Granny.

When I came here there were around a 100 on the roster, I think. Over the first few years, even as we grew toward 1000 folks, there was a core group of 25 or 30 that were always here. There were some very strong bonds with that group. I can't remember who the 300th member was, but it was special enough that Lance gave a b/s set to him. Fund raising, donating to causes, Serge, offering prayers for friends,.......sadly those days are gone. Being here has been a wonderful experience, though, and I appreciate all that Lance and Brock have put up with.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

There were advantages to the way things were back then. Same is true today

The wealth of knowledge we have here now is incredible. The features we have with the new software makes for very valuable teaching and studying tools. Like being able to watch video clips and such.

The disadvantage is with so many members comes an almost overload of topics in a given day that the focus we had on a single issue on any given day is vastly diminished.

It is no long like a bunch of builders in a shop helping Hesh strip a piece of mother of toilet seat off his throne to make a pick guard.

Reminds me of something a guitar teach once told me. “ wash your hand before and after you play”

We are no longer a bunch of termites setting the corner chewing on the days saw dust. As a dear friend of mine said several times to me this month things move on.

There are greater things to come for this forum but It not ever be the social club of instrument builders it once was. Its nature can no longer allow accommodation for individuals. It must now accommodate the masses but in doing so It will spread a greater amount of info to a larger variety of builders.

The sad part for us old timers is we invested our self’s in this forum and in the membership back then. It was easy to do and we were rewarded with better environment by all.

Now it is harder to be deeply involve and there is less noticeable difference if a specific member is present or not.

For better or worse dependent on you point of view the forum no longer reflects the personality of the core membership. But has its own personality. The natural affect of this change slowly eliminates the need for senior members help maintain the direction of the forum. It now has an auto pilot.

Still have to admit that for the most part the core members here are the greatest.

I'm reminded of a famous quote about a popular restaurant.
"Oh, Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded".
The flavor of any group changes as it grows or just with the passage of time.

Yeah, I miss him, too as we surge forward. Typos have been one of the uplifting features of the OLF over the years. ...and, no, they're not just from Rod!

BTW, my "join" date on the left is erroneous (not to be confused with erogenous!). I'm actually member #141, give or take. I've been gone for a while, and the new software wouldn't let me log in with my old info.

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Carlton Macksam
Muskegon, Michigan

Great to see you posting again Carlton! Are you still building? I miss your witty posts.

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

I've been thinking about this post for a few days and also exactly what led to me starting the OLF.
The easiest answer is that I do have little masochistic side to me, maybe that was it!

Seriously though, I would get into to a conversation about something with two or three different builder friends,
say, Bob, Matt Gage and me would be emailing CC'ing and Fwd'ing back and forth and I thought, there has to be an easer way for us
to communicate. So I began experimenting with my Microsoft FrontPage and sure enough I found a "Discussion forum" template.
I installed it at my main guitar site and called it "Lets Talk Acoustic Guitar"
Then Bob invited a few other folks, I think Bruce Dickey was one of the first, and it seems after that it just caught fire and grew like crazy.
We quickly out grew the original (front page) software, round about that time Brock Poling was starting to post, we struck a friend ship and began talking about how we could move the OLF into the next phase, more whistles and bells. So Brock helped me with deciding on a server and software, he also donated the server's hosting space and also his resources to coders to write the new OLF. If memory serves that was sometime in 2004?ish.
I do remember that Brock and I met for the first time at the ASIA Symposium in Maryland 2005. We had 260 registered members at that time.
We have since long out grown the first OLF server and have moved into our new OLF 3.0 software that is being hosted at a new facility. This new place is not donated, and costs a pretty penny each month BUT with that we get 24-7 support, and also hardware upgrades at no cost. SO there will always be plenty of resources to move forward as we continue to grow. That is a great feeling from our perspective.

The OLF these days has lost a little bit of its charm, when it was small, under 200 members, it felt like a club where you knew everyone by first name, its much bigger now and has grown considerably since the new server was put on line.
I think though the the OLF can be -to you- what ever you want it to be, and that's a great advantage.

Where do we go from here? Not sure, hopefully we can continue to grow, find a happy medium between the pros, amateurs and beginners, and always try to keep the original spirit of the OLF intact. That is to Be nice and enjoy!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I don't think Lance could have said it any better. I have only been here since November 2006, and I lurked for about 6 months before that, and I have even known the small changes in the OLF. But that is what happens when you get towards more members. I think that Lance is exactly correct in saying that the OLF can be whatever you want it to be. Pro's can have their pro discussions and occasionally help out us beginners, or whatever you want. I am happy with the OLF and hope that nobody else memorable decides to leave.

I can remember coming here after coming from a forum that had almost half a million members, mostly people who were just there to talk about guitars and nonsense. I only cared about building, which was a small and not often used, but when it was used it was only used to talk about nonsense. That is why I feel in love with OLF. I found a small group of people who loved building guitars and had great discussions about guitars.

I am happy that I have found the OLF and I can't wait to see what the future holds, especially for when I am able to participate more and am able to build more.

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-Rob Eckert
Ann Arbor, Michigan