Official Luthiers Forum!

hi all
Further to a post some months ago regarding uk / european suppliers for the luthier, I was shocked at the apparent lack of variety of choice, quality, not to mention the prices when compared to the US.
We o’er here can only look on with envy to the abundance of such resource in the Americas and Canada, I did a search for (european) luthiers it spits out hundreds, where are they getting their materials from? I thought.
So some investigative work and one or two unusually cryptic “keyword searches” later there they were, they do exist, they just don't put themselves out there and unless you go to specialist music trade events you wouldn't know of their existence, ahhh the WWW.
The mainstay is of course european timbers spruces / maples etc. and many import cedar / engelmann / sitka and the like from America/Canada so the soundboard aspect in comprehensively covered.
What is noticeable by its absence is a comprehensive supplier of hardwoods suited to OUR needs like o’er the pond, I’m sure europe could sustain one such supplier if the competitively run.
Suffice to say I can consider buying a Master Grade soundboard , Picea Abies, air dried for five years, western/jumbo dimensions from a Tonholz specialist hand selected to my requirements/preferences who has supplied top luthiers word wide for many decades including all taxes and postage to UK for £50 = $100. oh and 1 kg. bracewood of the same quality for £5 =$10
Or a full AAA as above for £40 = $80. Brazilian Rosewood bridge blanks for £2.50 =$5 !!!
Might I add that on my search I found a few “dealers” whom some on other forums considered to be questionable, after doing a bit of investigation of company or owners name so have omitted those, I am not responsable for those on the list.
This does not mean I have discovered all the reputable suppliers in europe nor if any are missing from the list that they are unreputable. (If you get my drift).
yours Geordie
for those interested start here-

http://www.espen.de/
http://www.germanspruce.com/index.html
http://www.tonholz-fuchs.de/pricelist.htm
http://www.gleissner-tonewood.de/Englis ... ducts.html
http://www.bois-lutherie.com/bois_english.html
http://www.peuker-holz.com/www%20e/Gesamt%20e.htm
http://www.alpentonholz.de/produkte_en_n.html
http://www.eurotonewood.com/
http://www.karin-rost.com/eng/index2.htm
http://www.guitartonewoods4luthiers.co.uk/
http://www.margotschumannedv.de/kollitz ... rameak.htm
http://www.luthierssupplies.co.uk/
http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/
http://www.maderasbarber.com/main.asp?lan=eng
http://www.touchstonetonewoods.co.uk/ttindex.html
http://bosniantonewoods.com/index.htm
http://www.tonewood-supplies.co.uk/Default.aspx
http://www.prosono.co.za/en/woods_strin ... ents.shtml
http://www.avesta-tonewood.cz/
http://www.tonewoodinternational.com/
http://www.tonewood.org/source/eng/eng_index.html
http://www.riwoods.com/home.asp
http://www.bhtonewood.com/index.html
http://www.europeantonewoods.com/index.php
http://www.akustikwood.com/indexen.htm
http://www.craft-fair.co.uk/suppliers.cfm?SubCatno=94
http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/
http://www.hexham-violins.co.uk/luthier.htm
http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?idioma=2

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some tunes on acoustic and guitar synth.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGeordieAdams
http://www.myspace.com/geordieadams

SPAMMER!!!!!

Geordie, what are you trying to do to me?

I have had a heavy month financially....

Thanks for posting the links, though, I've looked through most of 'em when you sent them to me a while ago.

Well done geordie you seem to have a large amount of the european guys there and even one from south africa

There are a few others such theidore nagle and amsterdam finnhout that you mist off your list.
not to mention dave dyke and touchstone.
And there are the others such as rivolta and a few others that are very reputable dealers.

You will allways get sharks and there will be mistakes made by even the most honest of dealer.

Be wary about anyone in europe who offers brw (especialy for €2.50 a bridge blank) if i were you i would try to stay away from it.
i made an ethicle decision a while back not to offer it unless it is comfirmed old stock which is allmost impossable to confirm as you have to get defra to certify the stock.

i would like to point that i am trying my very best to supply the service you are needing but business is young and there is no way i can offer the services of the big american guys for a very long tme yet.
That said our turn over is getting better and better so in a year or so we should be offering a much wider service.

You also have to realise that dealers in the uk can not offer comparable prices to the states for a few reasons.
firstly we have shipping and import duty,s to compete with That the americans dont have even a fraction of.
secondly or vat and business rates are much higher than that of the U.S.A and this is reflected in our wood prices.
we also have lousy business loan scheams here especialy in the current climate which can make financing a real pain in the ****.

Another fact is that most of the high end lumber is directly imported in to the united states as they account for a large percentage of the market so it is much easier for smaller tonewood suppliers to get hold of well figured stock.
The rest goes to china and japan

You have to realise that wonderfull highly figured woods you see on sites like bob c,s this wood is very rare (about 1 in 100 trees for commonly figured woods such as maple).
to buy small amounts of this type of wood you have to pay top dollar and get it where you can.

What i am trying to say is that the tonewood trade isnt as cut and dry as many people like to think and we do our best to the get wood to the end user at a good price.
after all if our prices are to high no one will buy wood off us.

Its my aim to do my best to bring the high end woods to the uk at a decent price and make it available to every one so they dont have to buy from the states and i hope that i am doing that.
I think if you compare my prices to U.S price they will be quite close becouse i try to match prices even that means a lower profit margin.

My new website will up shortly and i hope it will make it much easier fro people in the uk buy quality wood at a great price.

Of course there other dealers in the uk such as dave dyke, touchstone and timberline who are great at what they do and offer great wood and service.

i think the trade off of paying 5% above u.s. prices is worth it if take into account that you dont have to pay shipping and import duty,s and your wood will be with you in a few days.

I Really hope tonewood supplies will be there for the uk luthier for many years to come and that we can offer better and better service as the years go on and we expand.

Joel.

sorry dave dyke and touchstone are there my bad

J.

I don't know that there's a lack of good hardwood dealers - the Spaniards (Maderas Barber and Madinter) certainly can provide all the commonly used (and a few uncommonly used) back/side woods, and most major cities have good lumber yards where you can stock up on boards of mahogany and the like. European Spruce is fairly plentiful and easy enough to find, be it from Italy, Switzerland, Austria or Germany. With the weak dollar, a lot of stuff looks tempting stateside, but for spruce, mahogany, rosewood back/sides, I hit up european suppliers. Heck, I tend to drive there and pick through the stocks myself (Rivolta, the two Dutch yards in Arnhem and Amsterdam) where possible.

The European sellers are less good at marketing themselves; less of the 'pick the specific set' mentality, because their clients are mostly factories who buy by the hundreds of sets.

yes i think mattia is right,
there are the company,s such as madinter and barber etc that will supply hardwoods at very reasonable prices.
the reason they can do this is becouse is becouse they do supply many big factorys and are cutting/buying huge amounts of wood to supply them.
This is especialy true for the spanish dealers who supply the very large classical and flemenco factorys in spain.
they can offer kayha for €15 a set and peruvian walnut for €30 etc prices that hard to beat if you are just buying wood by the cubic meter.
Personly while i think this is a great sevice for some buyers it can in some cases come at the cost of quality and personal service.
of course if you phone christophe at maderas barber he will show you some pics of good sets he has available and they do offer a good service with this.
they have also built up very good reputations over the years.
One thing that does make it dificult for uk buyers at the moment is the strong euro which suddenly make the spanish dealers prices not quite so tempting(allthough its great for european buyers buying from the uk).
I think you will find that prices of mad rose in the uk are simmalar to that of M.D. and madinter once you take into account the exchange rates.
But as mattia says we do tend have a lack of the "pick your set" mentality and this is something that will surely be exploited in the comming few years
I know of at least two other uk company,s that are trying set up trade in this manner.

another reason prices in the states look so tempting is becouse of the week doller which makes it a great time for folks to buy from the states but its a challenge for the smaller european dealer to keep up with those prices.

The fact is as luthiers we are lucky and have a very large amount of supply sources whether at home or away and if we look hard enough there will be somthing for every one.
At the end of the day every one likes to buy wood in there own way.
some will only hand select some will buy sight unseen (risky imho) but it is the duty of the supplier to make sure that there wood is available and hopefully this where the new genration of Tonewood dealers will shine.

I would say though if poss its allways good to support local bussiness if you can (not saying you should buy from me) as in the long run you will have more choices in the future close to home.
If you live amsterdam use fijnhout if germany use woodland gmb an so on unless you cant find what you need and and have to elswhere.
That way you are not only helping your local economy but you will probably save on shipping and duties.

The whole situation of tonewood suppliers is a tricky subject as many people think that wood should be alot cheaper as "after all lumber is cheap and the dealer is only resawing it for us"
this is a common misconception as the tonewood dealers are not only selecting the very best wood for the job but there over heads are huge as well as the costs of sourceing and machining and wastage etc.
this in turn means that the cost of "sets" to the end user is high.
just becouse you are getting wood a bit cheaper does not mean that you are getting a better deal as i am sure anyone who resaws There own wood can attest to.

Joel.

if i may, i'd give two thumbs up to Martin Guhl from http://www.best-eurospruce.com/
some of the finest european spruce around and a few other note-worthy treats

Udi.

Anyone know of a UK supplier of Radius dishes? I'd like to get some I'm think 15' back and 25' top

Cheers Guys

John

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Another 10/10 for both Martin and his stuff!

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Build log

There is no one in the uk who supplies radius dish's.
craft supplies used to do phenolic ones but after having some troubles last year they seem to have stopped doing this.

i will be getting a cnc company to make them up soon along with other usefull tools that are hard to come by in the uk.
in the mean time luthier suppliers will ship to the uk for very reasonable price.
i would go down that route if were you,

joel.