Official Luthiers Forum!

posted in the 'what top with maple b/s' but thought that this topic deserved a new thread.
So, what do you guys do different when building a guitar that will mainly be used with a dropped tuning?

Frank

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Frank

Longer scale .. or multiscale FB .. I built one for client who uses it tuned in C or D derivatives, so we went 25.5 to 26.75 on the multiscale, and use med gauge strings.

IMO to get a guitar to work in C well either needs big strings, or longer scales ... you pick you poison.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I play at least half of the time on a steel string in 'altered' tunings, I always use the normal 25.4 scale, but get dedicated string sets for each tuning, so for strings that are going to be 'dropped' increase the string by 1 increment for each semitone. I keep three separate guitars just for these tunings. This is one I did as a DADGad guitar last year, I only ever make them in Mahogany or walnut and 'parabolic bracing, never rosewoods as I want a crisp response.

DADgad guitar

Dave White, will probably be along, he made a fan fret guitar for altered tuning work, something that I mean to try as he likes it.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, what do you really mean about the strings? if i'm using 0.11-0.52 strings and use a drop-d tuning would my sixth string be a 0.56gauge?
You skills both as player and luthier seems top notch , really enjoyed the listening.
you stated that you used walnut in these guitars to get that crisp responce, wouldn't maple also do a fine job of this?

Thanks

Frank

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Frank

Hi:

I play slack key on nylon string guitars so for building I have made adjustments from the basic Hauser/Rodriguez classical plan in a couple of ways. I have used thinner tops (2.3mm to 1.7mm) and I like WRC along with Koa, Aus Blackwood or Walnut for the warm tone and the overtones. This is my preference but I have heard slack key players who play on classicals and prefer more separation and clarity of tone so for them it will be woods that sound like spruce and EIR or similar traditional combinations. For guitars that I plan to keep I have thinned the top braces as well. Thinner, lighter and most likely shorter life span for the guitar. But then how long will I be around?

If there was a "smiley" with gray hair I would put it here.

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GEO
perpetual beginner

Frank,

Sorry I'm late to this as I've been away at "guitar camp heaven". This is a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, It is going to depend on what tunings you play in, the sort of music you play (both "in your face" blues and laid back new age are played in dropped tunings) and your own playing style. I sort of agree with Tony - I used to believe that you needed longer scale lengths to give the string tension and heavier bass and unwound strings. My caveat now though is that having built a 24.7" ladder braced concert sized guitar and played it in DADGAD with 12-53's I'm not so sure anymore.

The fan fret I made was a 24.7" treble going to a 26" bass scale length in Euro spruce/EIR and that has developed into a great dropped tuning guitar. Wood choices give "flavours" but you can make them all work.

I build all of my instruments with altered tunings in mind and for use with 12-53 gauge strings. A lot will come from how you build the instruments. Playing predominantly in tunings with a low C, I would probably use a 56 or 59 low string, but as I go a lot between tunings, a 59 in say DADGAD is a bit too heavy for my playing style and the sound that I want so I adjust my technique and us a 53.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

When we small builders voice our tops, we do so with the goal of maximizing their resonance and sustain....
no matter what the tuning that will be used by the player. If a player is determined to use very heavy strings
while playing in standard tuning, there has to be some special bracing consideration to accommodate the
additional tension, but otherwise, the tops are pretty much handled the same.

I've built for lots of players who regularly play in drop and alternate tunings that include a "D" or even a "C"
for the 6th string and have had great results using the same bracing as I do for standard tuning. The most
practical means of adjusting string tension and tone as tunings are dropped further away from concert pitch
is the changing of string gauge by the player to provide the mass needed to drive the top efficiently to maintain
the volume and projection that it was designed to deliver.

Most players that I've spoken with are using a standard light gauge set (.012" to .054") and have enjoyed
success and great tone with that low string being at .054", even when they're dropping to a "C" on that end.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I have to agree with Kevin.
I do not voice my tops with whatever tunings in mind, but rather trying to optimize a particular top. I have no idea how one could voice a top for open-tunings…
I noticed my guitars sound better with light strings on and I would be hesitant to put mediums on most anyway. But I could voice a guitar for heavier string tension, no doubt.
I built my 1st guitar with a 26.5" scale, thinking that since I played most of the time in dropped tunings this would make sense. Although the guitar sounded and felt great, the tension makes it difficult to play in standard tuning, and the extra scale length requires stretches that are tiresome in the first positions.
I know build with a 650mm (25.59") scale length and it accommodates dropped tunings quite well without feeling stretchy in the first positions, or tense in standard. Even a 25" scale will sound great in dropped tunings if the guitar is properly voiced and set-up. The problem being that below D/C# a lot of guitars loose too much power.
Some brands sell string sets for DADGAD, I think some call it "true medium" or something. It goes 13 17 24 32 42 56, one can substitute a lighter B string (15) for Orkney or C modal tuning.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I built a guitar for Ken Bonfield last spring that was designed to be pitched a whole fret low: D-D in 'standard' tuning. He seldom uses standard tuning, though, often playing in DADGAD and others (he's got one tuning that puts the low string on Eb that's just _strange_). Anyway, it's a Small Jumbo (16") with a cedar top and mahogany B&S. We used a 720mm (28.3") scale length, iirc, which is two frets longer than 25.4". He used his normal strings on it (Thomastic 'Spectrum' 53-13, again, working from memory here) and went up one gauge shortly after getting it. Aside from the string length the main concession to lowered tuning was a smaller soundhole to drop the 'main air' pitch. On working with it, and using the heavier string set, he's found it's really happy with 'normal' intervals at C-C, and all of the drop tunings from there. When I first strung it up I siad to myself: "I NEED one of these!", but I haven't had a chance to make another yet.

One thing you MUST think about when making any sort of 'odd' instrument is whether you're going to be able to get a case to fit it. Ken's guitar _just_ fits in a standard SJ case, with about 1/4" to spare.

Hi all, and thanks for your inputs.

i will be stringing up with 12-53's, and will probably build very close to what the plans suggests for my first couple of guitars, berfore i start experimenting.
Playing(or should i say trying to learn) fingerstyle arrangements gives your fingers a good stretch even with short-scale guitars, so that would rule out the longer scale(for now at least)
I'm guessing that this OM with lights on it will sound a lot better in dropped tunings than my crafter-dread with custom lights(?), gets a muddy and sloppy bass when dropping this one.
Or is it a faulty assumption that the smaller body will 'tighten' up the bass?


Frank

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Frank