Official Luthiers Forum!

As I enjoy reading others posts and comments on the art of guitar building, I wonder how varied the approach to a specific build request would be from one luthier to another.
I'll pose this as a commission for each builder, based on a commission I just completed.
Specs for the build are as follows.
Bluegrass playing, and flatpicking solos.
Tone requests, I quote: "even note blend
with minimized focus on treble and mids, good sustain, moderately loud, but fairly passive unless driven,(I have a heavy hand) with warm overtones and a quick response, the wood choice I leave to you, I play an Ibanez AW200 w/fishman electronics, but it has a boxy sound with metallic trebles, I want to play with just a mic in front, so no electronics.
I want a smaller guitar, like an "OM" with a cut away, low action and light strings. "C" shaped neck profile, with little taper and thinner body, (about 3 to 4 inches). Also, keep it simple, no bling or sparkle."
This is pretty much all I had to work with, as this particular customer felt he provided a good description of his guitar. And he did.
Humor me with your take on this build, and I will show you what I made for him, with all the specs.
I'd really like to see what others would build with this description----N.C.

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Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

I was hoping to see some of the experts opinions with regards to this post.
I see a lot of "objective" opinions here and thought maybe others would like to share their ideas on how to difinitively construct a guitar with (as I most often have) a mere conversation or two on tone focus. Rarely having the opportunity to meet this person and have them play and describe their needs. What one person calls projection another may call woody.
I will copy my build specs for this instrument and post it here, so feel free to offer "objective" criticism once read.
I'm sure I will get lots of replies then.

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Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

I haven't even finished a guitar but I'll take a stab. Stiff spruce top - sitka, adi, german just as long as it's stiff. Rosewood back - species depends on how much he wants to spend. A basic Martin style scalloped bracing pattern with an emphasis toward a tall thin profile and not 'forward shifted'.

I would want to make sure though that he knows the guitar won't sound like most guitars typically used for bluegrass. There's always the chance he's expecting a thin body OM with a cutaway and light strings to sound like a pre-war D-28.

That would be my problem taking orders... I think describing tone is almost pointless. I mean have you ever read a guitar players forum where they discuss 'Phoshor Bronze vs. 80/20's' or 'mahogany vs. rosewood', etc? You'll soon learn that not only is mahogany brighter than rosewood it's also warmer, darker, louder, softer, creamier, more nutrious and less filling. You also find that if someone likes a guitar it's always 'balanced'. Words do a poor job of represnting the actual experience of playing a certain guitar.

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Jeremy Douglas

Nice answer Jeremy, and thanks for the response.
Definitely spruce could be used, if braced right. Positioning of the bracing is a very good point too.
I forgot to mention this guy wants a very high string to deck height. (the thickness of his fingers, for protection against pick marks and to clean under the strings easier?)
So, anyone else care to comment?

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Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

*DISCLAIMER*
I have not completed a single guitar to date. My comments are opinions are based primarily on my experiences as a guitar player and on many tidbits of information (or misinformation) I've picked up through various sources. I do not claim to be an expert or authority on anything other than what I've personally experienced and reasoned. Please keep this in mind as you read.

This is one of the things that is probably going to drive me nuts and probably one of the reasons I'd be very reluctant to take commissions if I managed to get my foot in this industry professionally... It's so difficult to objectively describe anything about the tonal qualities of an instrument simply because any description given is based on a personal standard. I could tell you that a guitar is made of EIRW as opposed to Walnut, but terms such as "warm", "bright", or even "balanced" are going to be defined by whatever the person describing it is using as a benchmark for his/her analysis. I think the best one can do is focus first on some of the more definite descriptions of the guitar the customer envisions and work your way outwards from there. The extra information is somewhat helpful if you're familiar with the guitar he describes because that gives you something of a starting point to understanding him. I am personally unfamiliar with the guitar in question so it gives me squat... =/

Definite Description


Somewhat Vague


Extra Information


Another big thing is going to be the budget since that plays a part in determining the wood selection along with other aspects of the guitar. If this was what I had to work from, though I'd probably choose a Cedar top with a Sapele back and sides. This may be completely wrong, but I'm just making my judgment from the guitars that I've played. Guitars I've played with Cedar tops have always given me a consistent tone despite humidity and I just felt them to be warmer overall than Spruce. I have also liked a lot of the Sapele guitars I've played and it seems to be a budget wood that doesn't skimp on quality and warmth. As for the body shape, the guy is looking for something like an OM with a cutaway so I figure give him an OM with a cutaway along with anything else he requested such as the neck type (even though I'm unfamiliar with what exactly a "C" shaped neck is) and action. If anything, I might brace the guitar a bit on the heavier side and use a slightly heavier bridge to dampen the guitar a bit. I would think this would slightly reduce the volume output (based on the "moderately loud, but fairly passive" request) and dampening the guitar would help eliminate some of those metallic trebles and brighter overtones that may be bugging him in his current guitar...

Anyways, that's pretty much my thought process and response to the matter at hand. I look forward to hearing how other people might respond to such a request and I am also curious to know how you responded to it and what the customer's feedback was...

Another good answer Micheal.
It's quite informative to hear how others would address this request, vague as it is.
Well, I'm not going to get a huge response from this I suppose...so here is the guitar built to specs I shared earlier.
- Western Red cedar top, thicknessed to .095".
- Sitka spruce bracing in a (my) modified "X" , single wing braces and smaller harmonic (1) brace, scalloped and in-let to hand bent basswood linings.Maple bridge backing.
Flatsawn EIR sides bookmatched and thicknessed to .080"-.095".
EIR bookmatched back with purple heart back strip, thicknessed to .095"-.110".
Back bracing (4) spruce scalloped spars in-let to linings.
Mahogany neck and bout blocks with 5/8"x3/4" M/T route.
3-3/8" to 3-7/8" body taper, 28' back radius.
3-1/4" soundhole with rosewood rosette,
1-1/4" diameter bass side sound port.
I reduced the sound hole slightly for bass and added the side port.
2 pc flame maple neck with purple heart ribbon, profiled to a "C" at .945" from 1st fret to 11th. 1-3/4" bone nut , 2-3/16" string spacing and bone saddle. 7/32" thick fret board with 14" radius. Maple fret markers for less bling on rosewood fingerboad. Neck set angle was increased to 1.85 degree to increase string height to top to 5/8". Rock maple bridge @ 1/2"x6-1/2" for treble dampening purposes and added height. with purple heart "dash" inlayed center.
Flame maple headstock overlay with gold Gotoh machines, maple bound fret board and ebony bound body, no purflings.
Medium frets on 25-1/2" scale, action set to 5/64" @ 12th fret. with light ga. D'addario EJ16.
Rosewood bridge pins and gold strap button.
While I was stringing and tuning this one, I was a bit curious as to the tone I would have and if my interpretation was going to be accurate. I have owned and played a couple artwood series Ibanez', so I had that to draw from. Some of my build techniques were very different with this one though, I have never used a maple bridge, let alone a maple bridge and maple backing especially this large. But it just made sense and worked itself in easily.
It plays like I had completely invisioned it would. Very warm and smooth, no cracking highs or booming lows. Quick and responsive to a medium touch, really nice sustain, and clean clear overtones. I was surprisingly impressed, not only with the sound it produced, but also with an instant confidence that I had just built this guitar to his exact , vague and hurried specifications. I will be the first to admit I am not a great luthier, so come on guys, let the commenting begin, I'd love to hear them.
--N.C.

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Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

Really good stuff on what wood s to use has been mentioned. Like others have said I don't think the client would be happy with a small body if he truly wants a bluegrass sound. but then again he askes for a contradiction

"Bluegrass playing, and flatpicking solos even note blend
with minimized focus on treble and mids, good sustain, moderately loud, but fairly passive unless driven"

He wants all the attributes of a big body and all the attrubutes of a small body

This client may be hard to please

"Bluegrass playing / even note blend" This is a tad contradictive

I was sort of wondering about this also. I too am no expert, but it seems that if the client plays in a bluegrass band, then there is going to be a need for more volume and punch that can typically come from a small bodied guitar. A thought might be trying to steer the client towards an "M" bodied Martin style or a Gibbie Jumbo style to give the added volume, but still have a fairly comfortable waist profile. This is a pretty tough set of specs!

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

there is the possibility these contradictions are intentional ie. a well educated guitarist checking to see if the luthier know his stuff. you may want to have a long face to face or at least phone conversation with this client before getting to deep into design specs.

I would tend to think that such a contradiction isn't so much intentional. We all have in our minds some sort of ideal product (however impractical though it may be...). So while it may be a possibility, I somehow doubt that the customer in this case is testing the luthier's chops. The question then becomes: "Is the size/shape of the guitar the customer's priority or is the 'bluegrass sound' his priority?"

I do agree, however, that trying to get some more information out of the customer is always helpful whenever possible.

First of all, thanks for the responses.

To sum up, I think there were a couple replies that really addressed the problem we can encounter at times when trying to build an individuals instrument.
There has to be lots of communication before, during and even after the build. It is very important to listen to what a customer is saying to you, it is also very important to play and sample as many brands of guitars as possible to have a decent knowledge of various guitar tones.
I called this customer with a few questions about his instrument, only to be politely told that "I trust you, just make it to the spec's I gave you." Normally, this reaction would have just told me to not bother with such a persons lack of participation. But I thought to myself, he has already paid his deposit, given me a fairly detailed list and described what he is looking for. So why is he being so
unenthusiastic. Then I realized what he was attempting. He has since admitted this to me and now I am very glad I went forward with this build. He was trying to find his builder.
I have often wondered if I am hurting myself by not just building 3 or 4 set models of guitar. I found out from him that being open to building any type of guitar was what made him ask me to build his.
Now that he has had his new guitar for a few days, he says it is exactly what he wanted and now wants a martinesque dread.
I just wanted to share this particular experience with you, for whatever reasons are there. I am not in the same class as the Kragenbricks,Polings,Mustapicks,Cornerstones, Hodges, Klepper, and many others I see here, But I intend to keep building and listening and learning from the customers and the other builders.
7 finished commissions so far this year, 7 satisfied customers and 1 smiling builder
Thanks for reading ----N.C.

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Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com