Official Luthiers Forum!

I guess they make them in batches.

Wow!

So that's how you make a $75 guitar.

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Horton, MI

Take a good look folks from the USA....that's the future of the American guitar manufacturing industry. Not to mention everything else. This is what happens when we become a nation of consumers instead of producers...it's all going over there. Need more proof? Just look at all the inside components of the computer you're using right now...yep just send all the work to China.
Of course then we'll be wondering why we have so many unemployed people in this country. And then we'll wonder why people not buying the goods we're selling that we had made in China... Why? because we sent our money to another country, and we no longer have it to spend.

Shootin' ourselves in the foot...

Sorry for the rant.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

When will the $5000 cars arrive?

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

$5000? Well, maybe not that cheap, but they're coming alright...
The problem is they will still cost the consumer $20,000 after the auto companies and the dealers mark them up for profits...
The Chinese actually have electric cars running around all over the place. They're way ahead on battery technology, and our auto industry is in bed with the Big Oil companies, so don't expect too much movement toward electric or hydrogen by our manufacturers...

Imagine what electric and hydrogen cars will do to the oil industry!
Oh wait....the oil companies will simply buy the electric car companies and also the battry producing companies. They will also take over the hydrogen manufacturing too if that ever becomes a viable fuel source.

D'Oh!


A pessimist? Who, me?

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Don't want to be a "spoil sport", but this is going places it shouldn't be going! Of course it's none of my business.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

A day in that place would make me go off guitars for life.

Sorry Waddy....you're right. Apologies to everyone...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Hey Don
You owe no apologies.
Thanks for saying it.

Imagine if every person who bought one of those guitars there bought one from some builder like us instead.

I am sure each and every one of those guitars in that factory are given the same tender loving care, that each one of us gives ours, and did you notice how unique each and every one of them were?.......................... ....riggggghhhhhhht

That there is why we are sometimes having to hunt so hard for that niche market. Folks who are looking for a cheap chinese guitar are not going to come to us. Maybe our clients are the ones looking for the custom Porche, Corvette, or Lambourghini of guitars?

OTOH, some of their guitars sound good enough to make many people happy, and their perception is that they are getting a quality guitar at a cheap price (take a BlueRidge for example). There may soon come a day...soon....That some of those Chinese guitars are going to be as good, or better, than the big American guitar factories and people are going to want them even more. Similar to Honda vs Ford, Chevy, or any other "American" auto (of course I'm not considering the fact that the American auto folks have been getting their stuff made overseas). The niche, whatever it may be, is going to get smaller.

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Brad Tucker

Goes back to other discussions on the same topic. If they look OK and sound like a guitar 90 to 95% of guitar buyers will be happy. That's all they care about. Whether it's better than the other guys is not important to them. Only price and it's a guitar.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

The most important thing to a musician is how good the instrument sounds, esthetics are second. There are many good/great sounding Chinese ukes that can be had for a few hundred dollars. Its difficult to convince someone to pay $1,000 or more for your handmade uke unless they want to pay extra for the inlay, fancy bindings, etc., etc., unless they are well to do and appreciate the extra work that goes into a custom instrument. With labor intensive endeavors such as luthiery, cheap labor can really undercut the market.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

I don't think I mentioned musicians. Most guitar buyers are not musicians!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

They're already here...
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1943/69/

Another little thing
http://www.infoworld.com/news/feeds/08/07/29/India-developing-US10-laptop.html

Sad times...

I didn't intend to start political discussion. I just thought that it was interesting to see how things were done there. This factory is not particularly automated but, then again, they only showed the final sanding section. No telling on how they actually built the things.

I wonder how cheaply you could make guitars if you went "all out" for high volume manufacturing. I know, that's sort of what Taylor is doing but Taylor isn't trying to make $75 guitars. I didn't see any "options" in that factory. All of the guitars were the same. Yes, there were different models but they all seemed to be exactly the same woods and trim.

Truth be told in China they don't need to automate anything... the cost of high tech machinery like Taylor employs there is probably much higher than the cost of human labor to begin with... =/

I wonder how they can get materials so cheap. You start adding up the parts; tuners etc and you have to wonder how the heck they do it. Now if I could only buy parts that cheap - maybe OLF should have a cooperative - oh oh that sounds kind of socialistic doesn't it?

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Hey, who took down the video, the Olympic committee?

Dan

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Dan
http://www.acme-archtops.com

Often it's not the materials that they're cutting down on. A big cost that comes off is the cost of human labor. In some places in China, you could literally live off anywhere between $15 and $30 a month. Of course these are the poorer regions, but that's where factories overseas find their workforce... And obviously it's not just China, but places all over the world. It's the lowered cost of labor that more often than not makes things made overseas cheaper, not so much the cost of the raw materials themselves.

The sadder thing to be honest, is that the price doesn't always reflect quality either. More often than not products made overseas are just as good (and sometimes better) than products made domestically... Some examples of this are computer parts and clothes...

I don`t know why your appoligizing Don,The truth is the truth .
Looks like Balsa wood to me.My wife said she saw a ton of them that looked like that in Wallmart.To me crap is crap .
James W B

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Does no one remember the Yugo? Come on people!

Anyway...they sure are cranking them out.

As for materials, they're all plywood, probably even the fretboard. (Not that there's anything wrong with well-made laminates in certain contexts...cough, cough.) I can't even imagine how crappy the tuners are.

Regardless, it seems like the minimum price for a decent all-wood acoustic guitar is close to $1000. They're building guitars that'll be spray-painted powder blue, stamped "Fender," and sold in the thousands by Guitar Center right before Christmas.

And a year later they'll be useful...as firewood.

Flori, I can remember in the mid 70's when people laughed at the Toyota as a curious piece of junk, which it could well have been. Is there a lesson in this? Apparently it was lost on American car manufacturers.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Theres actually a fair bit of quality tonewood going to China.

Rich,

China is exactly where Japan was post war with a large cheap labour force. Labour is cheap now but once the growing Chinese middle class starts demanding an inproved quality of life then labour costs will increase. What happens then? Another country with cheaper labour takes over the crown......its all very simple really.

Cheers Martin

You are absolutely right Martin. I expect US manufacturers will be relegated to being boutique producers of everything for those who want something unique and can pay for it. I expect China is reverse engineering Boeing airplanes right now.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA