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I think Hesh's post, for the most part, expresses most of the feelings I have on Chinese manufacturing. The main one is that they're capable of producing the whole gamut including products in a price range below what anyone in the West can.

I spoke recently to a man with a lot of world experience, as well as being a well-respected professor with a Ph.D. in economics, who had spent a couple weeks in China. He said there were two very notable things about China: work ethic and construction. In Shanghai he counted hundreds of buildings going up (he counted the giant cranes, actually) between the airport and his hotel, all very large. The other thing he noticed was that the Chinese work harder, much much much harder, than we do. Nearly everyone works 12+ hours a day and the idea of days off is quite foreign to them. When the average person is working over twice the hours every week as someone here, with no complaints or slacking off (different cultural perspective of work), it's easy to see a discrepancy in competitiveness. The Chinese want to 'win' globally, and the whole country's willing to break their backs to do it...and it looks like they will.

Comparing China and India with production to Japan is a false comparison, I think. The Japanese have much higher wages than Western workers. Where China and India are competing based on harder work and lower wages, Japan is competing based on superior process design. The American auto industry isn't losing to Japan because the Japanese are working for nothing, they're losing because the Japanese are making a much better product. The tolerances on -every- Toyota automobile are tighter than those of nearly all aircraft manufactured in the Western world, and it's a result of better process design (lean manufacturing, the current 'ideal' of manufacturing, is a derivative of the Toyota Production System). Conversely, Cadillac was still making stuff fit with a hammer 10-15 years ago.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Ah, Veneman's, where I bought my first...

Not to digress too badly, but has anyone compared an Eastman archtop to an Eastwood? I've heard great things about Eastman from a pro player. All their guitars over $500 are made in Korea. Below $500, in China.

just saw this and its funny you ask but here in india within a few months theyre launching this car which should cost about 2500$ on road.LOL

check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

considering though that a major portion of the population of the country which is really large will now be able to afford cars couldnt be so good for the trees wed need to build guitars . was just thinking of a way to connect it to guitars so its not completely off topic couldnt help myself.

Peace

Well, I'll chime in with an opinion. Truth be told, I'm glad there are hundreds of thousands of these cheap guitars out there. In the first place, their very presence in the marketplace makes the instrument approachable and affordable for almost anyone. Millions of people will acquire them (who might not ever start playing an instrument if it weren't so affordable). Many, many, many of these people will soon aspire to finer instruments, and in time, many of them will aspire to a hand made instrument. In that sense, these Asian factories are helping to create a market for the custom luthier's craft. Chances are excellent that a HUGE percentage of your customers had cheap Asian guitars as their very first instrument. Think about that.

Secondly, some of these mid-priced Asian instruments aren't bad for the money. In fact, my gig guitar (an Asian made Epiphone archtop) is a heckuva lot of guitar for the money, and it's built like a tank. I would take it places that I wouldn't even consider taking my hand made instrument.

Third, I've wanted an L-5 or a D'Angelico for at least 35 years. I finally realized I was never going to spend the required money to own one, even if I could afford one, so I learned how to make my own. Not sure about the relevance of this last remark, but it just shows you where a stream of consciousness will take you. But never fear. My longing for a hand made instrument didn't create competition for any of you. Even if I wanted to do this for a living, I simply don't have the same skills that most of you possess. But I gained a great hobby out of this whole process. And, yes, my very first guitar was extremely cheap, even 45 years go, and was probably built in Asia. (I traded it in with a significant amount of my kid-job savings and bought a Gibson).

Just random musings.

Sam have you ever seen Ming Dynasty vases in a museum? Who invented gun powder, the tea that folk enjoy drinking...?

I was actually responding to an earlier post which was comparing Japan and China. I was expressing why it wasn't an apt comparison. So, essentially, we're in violent agreement.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Unless, of course, you happen to work for me.

Not every offshore development is or will be successful, but our track record has improved considerably and our company has grown dramatically over the last four years based on examination and changing of processes, both ours and the overseas teams we deal with. I guess my statement was interpreted as a blanket that covers all developments - sorry for that - but It is absolutely substantiated, absolutely true, that SOME of the folks HAVE figured it out, and we are reaping the benefit...

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Mitch