Official Luthiers Forum!

Another one:

"Quitting your job to follow your passion will usually result in you finding success at what you really want to do in life."

This does NOT apply to lutherie.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

"It's probably pretty inexpensive to do right? I mean, you just have to buy the wood and a few other things."



Darrin

Well Don,
I'm glad SOMEONE finally came out and said it. Out loud.

Is there a test for the presence of silicone? How do you remove it?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy, the two types of silcone used by those companies differ molecularly. The presence of one extra carbon atom means that they will bond to one another. So, you can remove Scratch-X by spraying liberally with WD 40. Or again, if trying to remove WD 40, flood the item w/ Scratch-X.

Todd, is this how they start?

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Talking of which... on my recent tour of the Martin factory, I spotted this notice...



Rod

Well, that answered my next question, because I have heard of folks doing this......

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Brad Tucker

Someone on AFG posted that he called Meguiar's and was told that Scratch-X has a very small (whatever that means) amount of silicone.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

This is the best test for silicone...proof positive!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Your a bad man Presnall!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

This particular myth (I am certain) has originated because most folks don't know the difference between "silicone" (the polymer) and "silica" (a.k.a. silicon, silicate...tiny crushed and seived mineral grains based on SiO2).

The former is a finish killer. The latter is the abrasive in many polishing compounds.

The best test for "silicone" is to wipe the compound in question on a piece of scrap wood, clean it off, then shoot some clear coat on it and see what happens.

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

That should say

Scratch-X DID NOT contain silicone.
Scratch-X DOES NOW contain silicone.

I recently spoke with people at Maguirers on the phone.
Two different people told me that they have recently change Scratch-X to contain silicone.

Repeat - Scratch X DOES in fact have silicone oil in it.
They do not recomend it for their pro auto shops because of this. It is a home care only product from their POV.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

A couple of things that are the most come culprit for interdiction of silicone contamination in small shops is personal hygiene products mostly a few ultra care lotions and a few deodorants. But one biggie is the packing and corrosion preventives of new tools from overseas. How may have unpacked a Chinese bench vise without a good varsol cleaning before bringing it into the shop?

Todd,
I'm not sure that change would show up in an MSDS. Would they be required to updated the MSDS based on the addition of a nonflammable, non toxic, non hazardous change to their formulation?
No fish eyes could be because you are using product made before the change.
Give them a call. I made the guys on the phone double check. Based on the detailed information they gave (recent addition/not recommended for pro shops) and that it sounded like they were ready from their product sheets, I am pretty certain that it does contain SI oil. I'm not going to risk it.

BTW - My investigation started when I got a PM from a guy on the AGF that asked why I could recommend Scratch Xbecause he just talked to them and confirmed that it had SI oil. I didn't believe it, so I checked it out for myself.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[sarcasm]

Now there's a regulation that'll strike fear in the heart of every industrial product manager...

[/sarcasm]

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

No, silicone is not classified as hazardous. Quite to the contrary it is safe. I've been using silicone oil in medical devices for many years. Some of it comes of in the bloodstream during coronary procedures.

I suspect that Maguires believes that the additions of SI oil is not a significant change and therefore chose not to update the MSDS.

Here is a PDF of Dow Corning Silicone
http://www.instrumart.com/assets/108/dw200_05_5010.pdf

Taken directly from that MSDS sheet.
OSHA HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS
None present. This is not a hazardous material as defined in the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

why don't we do a couple tests? Real world samples....

Anyone wanna donate a guitar in white?

<ducking and running....>

while good ol' WD-40 may not contain silicone, it is certainly NOT a good all around lubricant...in fact it is very bad to spray it anywhere near bearings (like on a saw) as it tends to lead to their destruction...

Todd,
That Dow implant mess proved only that a jury can make a bad decision. All studies post that fiasco have shown that there was nothing unhealthful about silicone - nothing. There is no scientific study showing that silicone is harmful.
Silicone is inert in the human body. It does no harm.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I remember a reply to a question in a bicycle magazine.. A guy wrote in asking if WD-40 was good to use as chain lubricant.
The answer said to remember what WD-40 stands for.

WD is for water dispersion
40 is the IQ of anyone that would use it as chain lubricant.
I would guess the same holds true in lutherie.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Well, WD40 worked as a tap lubricant in a pinch yesterday when I couldn't find my tapping oil... so it isn't too bad a lubricant.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

its a great short term lubricant, but not long term (or so I have found)...these days I pretty much use it as a cleaner and then lubricate with oil or white lithium grease....

It seems that you said you aren't arguing the court decisions and then you proceed to do so. That's something I would do!

Todd,
I don' want to argue either, and will drop this after this post I would take you word on finish because it is your area of expertise. Medical devices is mine. Believe what you want, but your wrong about silicone being hazardous. I have the experience and expertise with silicone in medical devices. That Dow Corning suite as a total miscarriage of justice and made it very hard for people like me to develop life sustaining and life saving products without the use of silicone for several years. That's changed now that science has won out over the court of public opinion.

You mentioned the 90's and the Mayo clinic. Here is a quote pulled from the Mayo clinic today about breast implants.
"In 1992, responding to claims that silicone gel-filled breast implants had harmed tens of thousands of women, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned the marketing of the devices for breast augmentation. Fourteen years and mountains of safety data later, the FDA relaxed its stance, approving two manufacturers' applications to market silicone gel-filled implants for breast augmentation once again."

Read about it here - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breast ... ts/WO00052

A recent Harvard Nurses Epidemiologic Study conducted over a 14-year period finds no increased risk of connective-tissue disease or certain signs and symptoms of connective-tissue disease in women with silicone implants.

Read this link about the 90's Harvard study - http://consumerlawpage.com/article/breast.shtml

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Todd, perhaps you could clarify thids post - the thread is titled 'luthiery urban myths', so anyone reading the first post could quite reasonably infer that what you posted are examples of an urban luthiery myths. Ergo: Scratch X and WD-40 *do* contain silicone.

I had to read all the way to the end of the thread to confirm that you intended to state neither product contains silicone.

Todd was implying that the myth is that they do contain silicone, and he was trying to clarify that those products do not contain silicone.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."