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I'm developing an entry level 10-string classical guitar, and the key to this project is to keep my costs down. So, I'm looking at various ways to reduce the time it takes to build this entry level model, and one of the ways I plan to accomplish this is not to have to mess with purfling on the sides and back. But I still want the guitar to look nice.

I'm about 60% finished with my first attempt. It has a cedar top and EIR back/sides, which I plan to be the standard woods for this prospective model. I'm using curly maple as binding, but I am installing purfling along the top. It looks pretty nice, I think, but I personally don't care for the stark contrast between the dark EIR and the bright curly maple. So, I'm kicking around ideas for other sorts of woods to use that will offer a contrast, but not such a great one.

I have used both padauk and bloodwood for binding before. Padauk is difficult to bend as sides, and almost impossible to bend without snapping as binding. The plank of bloodwood I bought has rather uneven grain, and is also a chore to bend. It splinters badly. It sure makes gorgeous looking binding, though. I've heard, however, that if one can find straight-grained bloodwood, it is a pleasure to bend.

But I'm wondering what else is out there that might provide a decent contrast with EIR so I don't have to use purfling as a separator, that bends easily and that is not too expensive -- but something that doesn't provide as stark a contrast as maple.

I'm kinda stumped. I guess mahogany would work, but that's a bit too ordinary looking. What about cherry? I've seen some nice flamed cherry at a local hardwoods supplier, but I don't know anything about its workability or its cost.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

How about the colored fiber purflings? I saw them somewhere online...I think I saw a rosette and binding done with them on Kathy M's site:

http://pweb.jps.net/~msm/htmlpages/wcbinding.html

May not be what you have in mind, but doesn't hurt to look!

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Thanks for the link, Larry. I took a look, and Kathy's just using ebony binding from LMI. She just stacked up some multi-colored purfling next to it. I used LMI ebony binding on my very first build and had much the same problems she did. Haven't used it since.

I tend to err on the cheap side of doing things. So I like going down to my local hardwoods store, for example, and finding stuff to build guitars out of. So far, I've had great luck. Guess I need to head back down there with an eye out for interesting looking wood as binding material. I have no interest in paying LMI's prices for their binding offerings.


Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Mike,

I think that Mahogany against Rosewood would look awesome! If you want to live on the edge though I am getting some coloured purfling (dyed fibre) for Brock and myself that will be interesting. Another option would be walnut, although it's starting to approach the same colour as rosewood.

I'm sure that you will find just the right thing at the lumber yard!

Shane

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Canada

Hi Michael,

Since the contrast of Maple is too stark, maybe you could go with another "warmer" species with tight curl. (I think the curls in Cherry are too far apart to add the visual punch. I have only seen one piece of tight "fiddleback" curly Cherry in my life; most is ropey figure.) If you buy pre-made bindings, is $3 to $4 each too much? Take a look at Bob Cefalu's offerings. (That's $16 per guitar, compared to about $1 to $5 if you can find some inexpensive material and cut it yourself.)

Curly Australian Blackwood, curly Eucalyptus, curly Claro come to mind.

Maybe Zebrawood against the EIR would look cool, especially if you can find some that is very straight and that has dark stripes close together.

Someone may have a few orphan sides that would work just great cut into bindings, or maybe someone has some figured pieces that are just too small for necks or sides...

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Just looked at Bob Cefalu's RC Tonewoods site: Quilted Sapele, Bloodwood (as you mentioned), Lacewood...

Even some nice orange-y Cocobolo would look sharp against the plum/brown EIR.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

I think Bloodwood is a nice combination. Very elegant.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I really like using purpleheart for dark colored woods. I recently used it
on a african blackwood Tenor uke and it was fabulous!

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

[QUOTE=Shane Neifer] Mike,

I think that Mahogany against Rosewood would look awesome! If you want to live on the edge though I am getting some coloured purfling (dyed fibre) for Brock and myself that will be interesting. Another option would be walnut, although it's starting to approach the same colour as rosewood.

I'm sure that you will find just the right thing at the lumber yard!

Shane[/QUOTE]

Shane,

where are you getting the dyed fiber you are using for purflings?

Michael,
If contrast--yet understatement--is the goal, perhaps some Boxwood against the EIR would be perfect. More of a khaki color, with a calm appearance, it might be fine for your project. Haven't used it yet, but I hear it bends like plastic. Ours came from Gilmer in Portland.

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Michael, I'm sorry! I misread your post and thought you were looking for colorful purflings...I agree that a lumberyard's exotic hardwood stock can yield some nice surprises, especially for small or thin stock like bindings...good luck with your search!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Michael,

On the first guitar I made I used English walnut that i bought cheaply in a long block - with bwb purfling but it would look nice without as well:


I also have a Lowden in EIR that has pear bindings without side purfling which looks good too.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I really dislike showing more stupidity, but.. What is history of the non 6 string guitars ie 7,10, etc. strings? Are they modern versions of middle ages instruments. Who writes the music for them.

[QUOTE=Dave White]
I also have a Lowden in EIR that has pear bindings without side purfling which looks good too.

[/QUOTE]

Dave, a Lowden, you know sometimes you can go off people!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I have found plain koa fairly easy to work with and it looks great against EIR. Plain Koa is 2.35 if you buy more than 12 from Allied Lutherie.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Colin,

Actually I have 2 Lowdens - S25 and F32C - so I suppose that means you are right off me!

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Guys, thanks for all the great ideas. I'm gonna make a list and head hit the two hardwood stores here, as well as the Woodcraft and Rockler stores. Dave, I really like the contrast between the binding and sides on your guitar.

I finished scraping and sanding down the binding on this guitar just a short while ago. It looks alright. I'm gonna take you guys advice, though, and start cutting my binding channels deeper. It got a little thin in spots.

Bob, as to your question about modern multi-stringed guitars, here's what I know about it.

The modern 10-string guitar is a result of a collaborative effort between Narciso Yepes (1927-1997) and Jose Ramirez III (1922-1995). The first modern 10-string classical was built by Ramirez in 1964. It has always been somethng of an obscure instrument, with Yepes having been, by far, its largest proponent. In more recent years, however, it has been slowly gaining in popularity, chiefly among players who wish to transcribe baroque or renaissance lute music to the guitar, where the full range of bass lines can be preserved. In a similar respect, a growing number of arrangements of pieces originally written for piano or harpsichord is also becoming available. Also, players are becoming more inventive with respect to tunings, which has fuirther enhanced the repertory.

Not only does it have greater range than a 6-string, it also sounds substantially different. It has a very harp-like quality due to the sympathetic resonances of the added strings, plus a 10-string has noticeably better sustain than a 6-string classical. I think this is due mostly to the longer bridge, and at least partially to the added string pull. So, if you combine the added range, increased sustain and "cathedral effect," it is really an entirely different instrument.

So in this respect, the modern 10-string shares little with older guitars. During the 19th and early 20th century, there were a number of builders who made 10-strings, although almost all were 6-strings with neck and/or headstock extensions attached, and had no fingerboard for the lower four strings. Even now, a number of folks enjoy building harp guitars, which are more evolutionary representations of the earlier 19th C. multi-string guitars.

Here's a photo of one of my 10-string builds:



Here's a photo of a Scherzer guitar, circa 1850 or so. Scherzer was probably the best known of the 19th C. multi-string builders.



And last but not least, here is a link to Janet Marlow's site about the 10-string guitar, specifically a link to a page that discusses the 10-string's advantages. Hehe, she even quotes me.

http://www.tenstringguitar.com/pages/1/index.htm

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Beautiful work Michael!!

I used sycamore on my second guitar - pics are at
Harry's Walnut guitar

Michael,
Where did you get that photo of the Scherzer? Have you played that guitar?

[QUOTE=Dave White] Colin,

Actually I have 2 Lowdens - S25 and F32C - so I suppose that means you are right off me! [/QUOTE]

Dave, two Lowdens is being greedy! Mind you, I'll raise your 2 Lowdens with my three pre-war Martins

I still think that George's guitars sound better than the old Martins though, it's the sound I've been trying to get for years. It would have been cheaper to just get him to build me a couple!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=rlabbe] Michael,
Where did you get that photo of the Scherzer? Have you played that guitar?[/QUOTE]

I did some googling and found it here:

No, I haven't had the opportunity to play a Scherzer 10-string. I hope to someday. But I know a fellow who plays one -- Dennis Cinelli. According to Dennis and others that I've heard extoll the virtues of the Scherzers, there is really nothing else quite like them. The are loud, robust instruments, and are quite capable of holding their own very well against modern guitars.

Best,

MichaelMichael McBroom38602.6815625

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Live to Play, Play to Live