Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi Rod,
Yes I use their retarder.
I have used their instrument lacquer for about 6 years.
I highly reccomend it.
Of course like any nitro lacquer-the thinner it is applied the better.

JJ and Jimmie D What was the product # on the Can of McFadden you guys got. What you want for guitars is L-3651 if it is another # that may be the problem.

Josh - if you haven't ordered the McFadden's yet you might want to consider using Mohawk Instrument Lacquer. I plan on using it on my next spray based on the recommendation of a Toronto luthier (Tony Karol) who switched from McFadden's due to the cross border shipping issues with McFadden's. Tony has been very happy with Mohawk. Alternatively, if your heart is set on McFadden's check if there are any luthiers local to you and see if you can purchase some from them. They'll often buy McFadden's in 5 gallon pails. A bunch of Toronto area luthiers used to get their McFadden's from Serge Dejonge who has now moved away from the Toronto area.

Good luck! Anthony Z38602.7905902778

Peter at McFaddens was actually the one who recommended using Shrewin Willimas Butyl Acetate and even gave me their part number. So there is no [non-compatibility] issues with using it. I switched from Behlens (Mohawk) to McFaddens and IMHO it flows out much smoother than Behlens. Of course YMMV

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Anthony

Thanks for the tip. I know Tony and was actually planing to go see him somtime in the next few weeks if it worked out. If Mohawk is much more availible than McFad it is probably the way to go. I was aware that Sergi de Jonge uses it. I took his last building course before he moved from the Toronto area and he mentioned he supplied many of the area luthiers.

I'm leaning towards the Mohawk stuff if I can get it locally. It would save me one pile of bucks. Thanks for the tips guys I was not aware of Mohawk.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
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Anthony--Fancy seeing you here!
Nelson

Josh, Mohawk sells wholesale out of Montreal. Readily availble over here.

McFadden's will ship, and I do it all the time. yes, it costs, and it is a bit of a bear, as it comes by truck freight instead of courier, and that means you may have to call customs to clear it once it reaches you, but that's simple enough, too. It helps to have a importer's GST number, and that only takes one call and only changes the last few digits of your GST number. You are a registered business, right? Dunno if this can be done otherwise. Just expect a few phone calls and a few extra expenses, but not too bad. Best way around the extra expenses is to share a purchase with someone else up here, and split the costs; it will cost about the same to ship and clear 2-3 5 gallon pails as one, so ask around before ordering. I'd help out, but I'm stocked up until next spring.

I've used both the Mohawk(about 9 years ago, so the formulations may have changed), and I like McFadden's better. As Adam says, L-3651 is the one to get. Not sure I'd say it flows better, as both shoot nicely, but it holds up much better to cold weather and/or rapid temperature changes than the Mohawk does(or did). Sprays wonderfully straight from the can, but you can also thin it with what Tim says, but I've thinned mine forever with the cheap Home Hardware brand lacquer thinner. From the strong smell, it could likely be just Butyl Acetate, too. Whatever it is, I can vouch for its availability everywhere, and that it works just fine. Cheap, too.

BTW, I have some 7-8 year old McFadden's L-3651 here that is still fine. I just put all my can's bottoms into the same jug.... They say it has a shelf life of a year, but the only change I've seen is the color, which begins to turn amber even in the can after a year or so. I use this old stuff because of its color, and because it's gotten good and thick, and is great for drop fills, but shoots fine if thinned. Mario38603.0935532407

Mario

Thanks for the tips. If the current Mcfad lacquer is more durable than the Mohawk than I would be more inclined to go with the McFad Lacquer. I'm really flip flopping about which to use.

Yes I am a registered business and I applied for an importers GST number when I registered about 1 1/2 years ago. I think I am all set as far as that goes.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
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Mario now you have me doing a rethink on McFadden's vs. Mohawk. I think I might check in with Tony as he has fairly recent experience with both McFadden's and Mohawk. For what it's worth based on market acceptance of McFadden's, Josh I'd be inclined to go with McFadden's all things being equal -- but they seldom are <g>

Mario -- out of curiousity what kind of shipping costs, customs etc does it cost to bring McFadden's over the border? If it gets way out of sight it might be worth it to shuffle off to Buffalo to pick some up.

Nelson -- nice to see you -- hopefully this forum lets a couple of Banjo builders like ourselves hang around <bg>. Actually I am starting to see more than a couple of Archtop builder's lurking around here -- Anthony Z38603.4032175926

Mowhak may have changed the formulations since the last time I used it, so if others like it fine, I wouldn't be too quick to walk away. There wasn't that much difference.

That said...

I love McFadden's products because they are indeed the finest, and finishing is a chore with so many things that can go wrong, it's nice to know you don't have to look twice at the product. Unless it froze... <bg>

If you live within a couple hours of the border, indeed, it may be worth it to go across and bring it back.

The shipping isn't all that bad, depending on how you look at things. I just break it all down to a 'per instrument' cost, and at that, it is fine. Expect to at least double to costs. Truck freight ain't cheap. There won't be any customs charges, because you will act as the broker, but you'll need to pay the PST and GST before they'll hand over the goods.

Thanks Mario -- I touched base with the fellow I was referring to and he has been happy with Mohawk. It is a lot cheaper all in than McFadden's. Many thanks for your reply!

I have used Mohawk for years and have loved it. Then they stopped making the formula I was using and I had to try the plasterized formula ( don't have tha part numbers handy). I had 3 guitars in a row that the finish checked. I switched to McFadden's after a few discussions with Addam and I just sprayed my first 2 guitars. It is great. The Mohawk stains that I like so much are compatible with the McFadden's.

I still use the Mohawk on a vintage repair because I can freeze-check it and make it look old.

Went to the shop to get the part numbers.
The original Mohawk that I used for a long time was 610-5207 (galllon) No problems.

The Mohawk that I switched to was 610-0207(gallon). It has plastercizers that "eliminates checking" according to the catalog. This is what checked on the 3 guitars.

I used Mohawk 2255 reducer with both of them.

Just to make it clear, this is the only problem I had with Mohawk, and the above part numbers are all I am experienced with. I am in no way trying to slam Mohawk. I love their products. About half of what I spray is vintage repairs and I want it to check.

Looking at the Mohawk site, the instrument lacquer is product # M610-1407 (look here) Don't know if it is the same one you have used James, differenct # all together. Doing a search on the old product number 610-5207 came up with nothing, would love to see the product info if you still have an old can of the stuff lying around (doubtfull but worth asking).

Here's the important stuff on the current instrument lacquer from Mohawk.
Characteristics:
Weight per gallon: 7.48 ± 0.1 lbs/gal
Flashpoint: 46F/8C
Package Viscosity: 26-28 seconds #2 Zahn cup
Dry time: Air dry @ 72F, 35% RH
To touch: 4 minutes
To handle: 15 minutes
To recoat: 60 minutes
To rubout: 24 hours
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC):
735 GPL, 6.1 lb/gal
Spec. Gravity: 0.90 ± 0.01
Boiling Range: 180F/82C
Non Volatile (wt): 18.0 ± 0.5%
Coverage: 210 sq. ft./gal.
Package Life: 3 years
60° Gloss Meter Readings:
Gloss: 90° +
Air Quality Data: Photochemically Reactive
Hazardous Air Pollutants: 2.42 ± 0.1 lb./ lb. solids

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And here is the MSDS info on it.
MSDS M610-140

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I think I am going to give this stuff a try and see how it turns out. If it works well, it sure saves a trip down south. Not that it's realy far to go for me anyway, Grizzly in Bellingham is only 45 mins away.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I bought Mohawk inst. lacquer 060-1407 and have sprayed it. The original coats were fine but I didn't use the vinyl sealer and it chipped easy. I now have the vinyl sealer and reducer so I am going to do a test spray very soon. I think the product is OK and the availability in Canada is good. I will let you folks know how it goes.

I am using the M610-1407 lacquer and think its fine - have been for a solid year and a half now. Out of curiosity Ron, whose vinyl sealer ??? As for checkintg, havent had any, not alot of chipping either, unless you crack the guitar edge on something, and then what would you expect it to do - dent at least for sure. Like Mario says, I thin with the home depot stuff and its fine. My gun likes about 10% thinner and it lays down pretty nice. I was getting McFaddens from Serge before, and since he moved, its easier to get the Mohawk (actually, the first can I got was form Serge - he uses it in a pinch when he was out of McFaddens).

Josh - hope to see you soon - I actually dont even pay shipping on the stuff - Richelieu hardware in Montreal is the distributor, and they will land it at their Mississauga warehouse for free, so I just go and pick it up. About a 2-4 a US gallon.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Tony

Great to have you around here. Your input will be much appreciated. Hopefully I will be able to get out to your place sometime this month.

You wouldn't happen to have an extra gallon of Mohawk I could buy off you????? Just thought I'd ask. I noticed that Richelieu was a dealer and was going to ask you if you could get it from them is Mississauga. So you answered my question.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

UPDATE:

Back home and in the shop.

Addam...It is in fact L-3651.

I started to remove the gunk. A cabinet scraper got the bulk of the gummy lacquer off. Then I wet the surface liberally with lacquer thinner and continued sraping down to the epoxy. Finally I rubbed off the rest with rags saturated with thinner.

Prior to adding an insurance coat of epoxy I sanded with a ROS and 400 grit.

I ordered a quart of L-3651 from LMI...hopefully it will work. In any case, I'll test before going live.

Thanks for your help.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com