Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey there.

I have absultely had it with this finishing thing. I have completed this @&
$^!! cedar/bubinga archtop and I've refinished it twice!! I've used super
blonde shellac and for the life of me can't seem to get an EVEN color....
ANYWHERE! Especially the top, it's real splotchy. I've tried to take fine
(0000) steel wool and alcohol (70%) and rub the entire top to try to even
out the color. No dice. I'm waiting for that to dry and I'm going to sand
again. Any suggestions before I just sand the whole bloody thing down to
bare wood......again.......if I keep that up, there'll be no guitar left to finish
(the sides are only 0.065").

Any builders around the Cleveland area?

thanks
chip

Is it color from the Bubinga getting on the pad and transfering to the top? If that is the case do one session on the back and sides and allow to setup over night before working the top. Start the new session with a clean pad. I am assuming you are French polishing.

Sounds like you may have had too much shellac on your rubber, be sure to pad it off on some paper before using on the instrument. If the paper is wettened rather than just 'watermarked' the rubber is too loaded.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Spaying? Padding?

De-waxed? What alcohol?(you did mix your own, right...)

Cedar doesn't like being wiped with a wet pad. Best to spray a few light, dry coats to seal it, first.

Bubinga wil transfer its color to the pad, so again, same here; spray a few light, dry coats first. Shellac sprays really nicely.

It's dewaxed. I am not doing a french polish. I brushed it on. Thinned the
first several coats with alcohol to get into the pores. I concentrated several
thin coats to seal the top. Then I brushed on thicker coats of full strength. I
used the premixed stuff first. After I experienced some curing issues on the
first attempt, I got the flakes & mixed my own.

I hadn't thought about the Bubinga color leeching onto the Cedar.

chip

Most of the redish and dark hardwoods will leach. I think the guys had a good idea about spraying the first couple of coats. When I French polish I always work two sessions on each differnt wood seperatly. Allowing each to setup before moving to the next. This insures that there will be no trasfer of color. If I have a binding and purfling that is a color bleeder I take a small art brush and seal them first with a 3# cut. sealing all bleeding woods first should be done no mater how you apply the finish.

Chip,
   Unfortunately, you can't rub those initial coats in any situation, especially with Cedar being one of the woods and the other being one whose color is easily picked up and transferred by pad or brush.

   If you don't have spray equipment, go to a local hobby supplier and pick up a PreVal sprayer which is a simple atomization cup/gun wth a can of propellent on it. It will provide plenty of fan and material movement to cover that entire guitar nicely with a sealer coat or two with a single propellent charge.

   Without the sealing process being dobe first, your shellac is goint to continue to wick more deeply then you want and to cause that spotting and blotchy appearance.

   I seal first anytime I'm using a rubbed or pad/brush applied finish whether on a guitar or piece of furniture. If you do, you'll be amazed at the ease with which you're able to get an beautifully even colored and textured topcoat application. Sorry for all the trouble you've had with it. I know how discouraging that can be.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Chip,

I feel your pain. But I french polish. As for the blotchiness, I've experienced it with redwood especially. I'm french polishing a cedar top right now and I have had almost none.

You might want to try rubbing it on instead of brushing. I use a 1 lb. cut, which is kinda thin for most folks, but one of its advantages is it reduces the chance of uneven color. Also, I think you would have better control over getting one wood's colorations into another. In fact, one of the first things I do is wipe the rosette (I build classicals) and the binding/purfling with a pretty dry pad. This sort of seals the different colored and dyed woods into their places, and prevents bleed-over from occurring.

Also, I've noticed that, as I apply more and more "coats" the unevenness becomes less obvious.

If you try using a pad, a drop or two of olive oil works pretty well. Not only does it lubricate the pad, but it also seems to make the application of shellac more even.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

When all else fails try dynamite. It works well. No blotchy anything just a lot of small pieces...Just kidding...

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I've thought about it, believe me. The sound ports I've got in the sides would
fit a stick of dynamite just right.

From what I've seen, I don't think it's the color leeching. (could be wrong,
have been before, will be again). I'm going to sand the top plate for now to
level the existing shellac. I will take a picture of the top plate and post it
later.

chip