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You could try a water-based finish like KTM-9. Lots of people spray it, but you don't need to. You can do a pretty nice job brushing it on. The smell is pretty mild, so you don't need any special air handling equipment.

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I have been experimenting with Behlens rock hard table top varnish. Either brush it on or spray it. Finding a good brush and getting the right mixture of varnish and reducer is the key. Thin for good flowout but not so thin you get runs. Sand very lightly between each coat and then very carefuly level before buffing. It's very easy to sand/buff thru when leveling so be careful. It is a very nice finish when you get the hang of it.John How38653.678287037

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

KTM 9 waterborne, French polish shellac, brushed shellac. Behlen Violin Varnish just to name a few If you are looking for a deep lacquer like finish KTM 9 is your best bet. But I have to say that if you want to really learn about finishing I would start with French polish. You will learn a lot about prep and execution.MichaelP38653.6821064815

There's always tru-oil wiping varnish (vanish of sorts that is). No fumes, easy application, buffs out nice. Takes a long time to cure hard enough to buff though. There are good instructions on LMI's site for application and you can get it at any wallmart or hunting store.Rod True38653.6825

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KTM-9...wear a respirator when spraying. Cover everything up you don't want to have over-sprayed.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

You should wear a respirator no matter what you spray...
Do you really want to breathe in little particles of plastic to stick to your lungs and never come out? I don't think so.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I second Michael P's comments. I've been building for about two years now, and I decided to french polish from the git-go. Still doing it.

FP has a lot going for it. Non-toxic. No fumes to speak of. Easy to apply. No spray booth or expensive brushes necessary. Good shine, once you start getting the technique down. Annnnnnd -- you don't have to wait weeks to buff out the guitar when you're done. It is possible, in fact, to buff it out the same day you put on your last application of shellac. But be aware that the finish is still very soft for about a week or so after that last application.

So what this means is, if you're the impulsive type like me who can't stand to wait and who strings up the guitar immediately after buffing out the finish, you must handle it very gingerly, cuz it'll pick up dings if you're just looking at it too hard. DAMHIKT.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

French polish all the way, and don't buy the arguement that people won't accept FP on a SS guitar, they will and it is easy to convince people it is superior (which I believe it is.

French polish can be harmful.
"What!" You say? Yes, it can be...
Some folks use denatured alcohol, and even methyl alcohol to dissolve the shellac flakes. That stuff gets absorbed through the skin if you don't wear gloves, and can be harmful. Shellac is only harmless when used with grain alcohol. Even with gloves, the vapors of denatured or methanol can be harmful, so you should use a respirator too.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I'm just now in the process of French polishing for the first time. Last weekend I crested the first hump of the learning curve and ended up with a very nice looking finish. I started with the top and back (still have the sides to do) but must say that I'm impressed. It looks much nicer than the waterborne that I used for the first two, and the application process really fits my work habits and time constraints. No brushes, spray equipment, respirator, or buffer required. All you need is a few rags and squeeze bottles. I'm sold. (At least for now )

[QUOTE=Don Williams] French polish can be harmful.
"What!" You say? Yes, it can be...
Some folks use denatured alcohol, and even methyl alcohol to dissolve the shellac flakes. That stuff gets absorbed through the skin if you don't wear gloves, and can be harmful. Shellac is only harmless when used with grain alcohol. Even with gloves, the vapors of denatured or methanol can be harmful, so you should use a respirator too. [/QUOTE]
This discussion keeps comming up and yes French polish is harmful, not as harmful as most everything else in your shop though. Those fumes are probably a lot less harmfull than the sawdust you breath. Sure it is dangerous. But probably less dangerous than any other finishes you might use. I have pointed out before that if it is so dangerous why is Methanol approved for burning in our stoves. Indoor and in small spaces. OK so I re read what I just wrote and it sounds like I am on a tirade. I recently talked to someone who is using brush on lacquor on his guitar and when I asked if he had considered French Polish he responded that he decided not to because it is "so dangerous"

[QUOTE=Don Williams] French polish can be harmful.
"What!" You say? Yes, it can be...
Some folks use denatured alcohol, and even methyl alcohol to dissolve the shellac flakes. That stuff gets absorbed through the skin if you don't wear gloves, and can be harmful. Shellac is only harmless when used with grain alcohol. Even with gloves, the vapors of denatured or methanol can be harmful, so you should use a respirator too. [/QUOTE]

Don,

Does that mean that I have to wear a respirator and gloves when I pour myself a whisky too? Sheesh, I hope I can find a respirator that comes with a straw

So that's what they mean by "getting shellack ed"

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

My point, my good friends, is that anything can be dangerous for you if you do it wrong. Shellac, when dissolved in grain alcohol is the safest thing there is. It's completely non-toxic, even the fumes.

Richard, sorry...I wasn't trying to bait you into a tirade, but you hooked yourself nicely!
That guy who thinks brushing lacquer is safer has No Clue.

Dave, I promise that if you get shellaced that way, it won't kill you, unless you drive, or get in a brawl perhaps.

No need for the respirator...at least not publically, you might set off a panic these days.
At home, well, respirator, lampshade, what's the diff?


Don Williams38654.4090509259

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I can't think of a solvent that does not carry some associated hazards. The trick is to know the hazards and take the correct precautions.

I love the deep clear high gloss of nitro but I don’t like working with MEK, but I still do on some jobs. I am very satisfied with KTM9. I think hand down it is the best waterborne on the market, and is my standard finish. I started French polishing when I was 15 in my Grandfather’s shop. I adore the process and offer French polish as an upgrade finish option. No matter what the finish I take the necessary steps to work safely with what ever medium I choose.

To me this is the key thought. If you are building for profit, you can rig to spray nitro safely for a reasonable cost. You can rig to safely spray waterborne for not much at all, and for the cost of gloves, to French polish. However it still boils down to using the PPE (Personal Protection Equipment) responsibly each and every time.

[QUOTE=Don Williams] At home, well, respirator, lampshade, what's the diff?
[/QUOTE]


Another vote for shellac applied via French Polish. It has actually become one of my favorite building stages and something I really look forward to. Put on some good music (Rachel Podger’s recording of Bach’s sonatas and partitas for solo violin is my all-time French polish favorite) and enjoy the experience.

Cheers,
Jeremy

I'm a ktm 9 user. It's easy to work with & very forgiving. I'm very pleased with the results I've been getting with it.

Dale

[QUOTE=jwsamuel] So that has me looking for an alternative. Does a
finish exist that does not emit toxic fumes and that could be brushed on
wiped on, or sprayed on without requiring anything more than a
temporary booth to catch overspray?[/QUOTE]

As others have pointed out any kind of finish will be more or less toxic
because of the solvents in them, so in your situation I would say spraying
anything is out of the question. I find nitro to be excessively lethal, even
brushed on, and feel guilty releasing all that toxicity in the air, regardless
of the protection I wear. There is no free lunch and those fumes do go
somewhere. So far I find shellac to be the best finish in terms of sound,
look and ease of application. I have not "French-polished" per say but use
a cotton rag to apply it loosely and lightly sand and buff it afterwards, I
am still afraid to amalganate oil in the finish. Shellac gives woods
unmatched luminosity and beauty (a matter of personal opinion) and
would be almost totally harmless if mixed with expensive pure grain
alcohol. Again there is no free lunch however, it takes many applications
to build a good finish and it is more fragile than laquer or newer
products. The good side is that it is deceivingly easy to repair and touch
up and dries very quickly. If you change your mind later on and decide to
use laquer it is an excellent undercoat and base as well.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Laurent - Don't be afraid to use oil. I started out the way you are doing it and was really struggling. For me, the FP process was transformed as soon I used a drop or two of oil and rubbed IN the shellac instead of just trying to wipe it ON. Hopefully one of the resident FP experts will chime in here.

We always hear of good results with KTM-9. I have not been as successful with it so here is my questions.

I brush it on right out of the can and have tried flowing it on with heavy coats, have tried putting on thinner coats and always problems with air bubbles not flowing out. If you apply even a little on the heavy side it runs ever so slightly.

I sand in between coats with 400 grit to keep knocking down the bubbles and runs, and then next coat - same result.

I have sprayed it and that does work better but would prefer to brush if I could due to shop conditions.

So for you guys with all the success - are you brushing it on, and if so - how the heck do you do it without the bubbles and runs?

BTW - if you do spray this stuff, heed the advise of all of those comments before me. Just get some overspray on your wrist and hands and you will understand how thick this stuff really is an how it could clog those pores in your lungs for a long long time.

The poison is in the dose. Look up the web site for Di-Hydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) sometime.

Mike Mahar told me about an interesting anthropological study he'd read. They looked at things that lots of people do all over the world, to see what they did the same, and what differently.

If you're making a basket, say, there are some things you have to do, like soaking your materials in water to make them pliable. Everybody does those things when they want to make a basket.

There are different styles in baskets in different places, simply owing to differences in taste, and those can lead to different ways of doing things. So some differences in process arise simply because they don't matter.

Another, and more interesting, class of differences come from the fact that sometimes there is _no_ good way to do something. You might smear you basket with pitch to make it waterproof, and put up with the sticky stuff getting all over the place, or you might try to weave it really tightly, and hope that it won't leak too much on the three mile hike home from the creek, or whatever, but the fact is that until you can get your hands on a plastic bag there's really no good way to make a waterproof basket, no matter how much you might need one.

When it comes to finishes, we have yet to find the plastic bag. They all have problems, and all you can do is to asses the advantages and drawbacks of each one and find the balance that works for you and your customers.

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth]…but the fact is that until you can get your hands
on a plastic bag there's really no good way to make a waterproof basket,
no matter how much you might need one.
When it comes to finishes, we have yet to find the plastic bag. They all
have problems, and all you can do is to asses the advantages and
drawbacks of each one and find the balance that works for you and your
customers. [/QUOTE]

I would add that the plastic bag, as soon as it is manufactured, is landfill
material. Plastic does not degrade, is hardly recyclable, it just crumbles
into smaller and smaller particles and hence becomes more toxic as it
gets into the food chain. Again there is no free lunch, I'd take a not-so-
waterproof basket anyday, rather than a land filled with plastic and
phtalates. Hence my preference for shellac (or varnish, of which I have no
experience) over any of the other finishes, to complete the metaphor…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

[QUOTE=laurent]
I would add that the plastic bag, as soon as it is manufactured, is landfill
material. Plastic does not degrade, is hardly recyclable, it just crumbles
into smaller and smaller particles and hence becomes more toxic as it
gets into the food chain. Again there is no free lunch, I'd take a not-so-
waterproof basket anyday, rather than a land filled with plastic and
phtalates. Hence my preference for shellac (or varnish, of which I have no
experience) over any of the other finishes, to complete the metaphor…[/QUOTE]

That is changing as there are now 3rd generation biodegradable plastics (largely corn derived). The only reason they aren't being used is the 2 to 1 price ratio. Nevertheless, they will probably eventually dominate in the market place.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA