Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=BlueSpirit]Getting old isn't all it's cracked up to be.[/QUOTE]
Isn't THAT the truth?

Todd, I'm sure you're right: I'm sure that once I have a router & learn how to
use it, I'll have little trouble proceeding; but I'm kinda waiting until I have a
place (shop) to put it in - the mosquitos are still pretty bad 'round here. So
I'll hold off on buying them (I really need to avoid any expenses I can), and
thanks.

Charlie, like Kelby said, my dishes are also two layers of mdf thick. Each side is concave, one for gluing the braces and one for sanding. If you order a dish, I would back it with another piece of mdf or plywood to make sure it can't warp. If you're getting two different rediuses, just glue them back to back.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

That sounds great, Todd - thanks!

On the subject of routers, Cumpiano's book assumes that one has a router,
and I know that routers have become as ubiquitous as table saws, but I've
never had one, never used one, and never seen one in use; this translates
to me being dirt-ignorant on routers.

I know you're a tool guru, Todd, and woodworker extraordinaire: can a
laminate trimmer totally handle all routing tasks a luthier may encounter, or
is the overlap between it & the 'standard' router slim enough to require
both? Whichever one I get, I'm likely to stick with it until either my first
commission or my 60th birthday - not that soon in either event (besides, I
have to buy wood)!

[QUOTE=Brad Goodman] Kitchen counters are usually 36".[/QUOTE]
Right you are, Brad - my bad! I was obviously thinking desktop height.

Still, for a planing surface, I think I'd prefer a couple inches lower - which
falls right in w/ Todd's 34" height & ???'s 'palm-height' estimate; for close
work, assembly, etc. I think I'd prefer closer to 44-45" - belly-button, not
belt-buckle height.

The suggestions & rules-of-thumb you guys (no gals?) have given me are
invaluable - my guesswork feel much more educated now. Thanks again!

Hi,

ToddStock (recently named "Senior Member"), you're probably right about keeping the bit size small for a laminate trimmer but I have a different practical experience.

I've been using a 1/2" diameter mortising bit in a Harbour Freight (cheap & flimsy) laminate trimmer with no problems. I run this in my plate thicknessing jig to get guitar tops, backs, & sides near correct thickness. This use is probably not very taxing on the trimmer motor because only about 1/8" of the lower cutting edges of the bit are being used in this process.

Man, I've been eyeing that Rigid trimmer at Home Deep-hole with an unhealthy tool lust. Who needs a big, heavy router when you can do allof it (or most of it) with a sweet little laminate trimmer.

Skip

Another quick way to attach your router to jigs is to use a template insert. When make the dishes I sell (double laminated MDF) the process I use is as follows:
(my dishes are 24 inch diamtre.

1) Cut mdf to 24.125 square on table saw

2) draw diagonal lines to get centre of board

3) drill 5/16 hole in the cntre of the mdf for pivot of the tremel I use for my router (the tremel is a piece of scrap plywood with a 5/16 inch dowel at one end and then 12.5 inches up I have centred a 1.125 inch hole that template bushing insert fits into and vuala! a tremel!)

4) use the router and a .5 inch solid carbide up-cut spiral bit and serveral passes to cut out perfect cirles (alternately you could cut out the circles on the band saw and trim them with this router system)

5) Using a 5/16 dowel as a centreing guide I glue two pieces of mdf together with eight clamps around the outside edge and AR (yellow) glue.

6) Using a sled just like Todd's but positioned over my rim sander I place the mdf lamintaion on the rim sander and use it to spin the disc as I slower the router down the sled with the smae .5 inch carbide bit. My sled differs from Todd's in that the rails are only 1.125 inches apart and I use the template bushing again the guide.

7) Using 80 and 120 grit papers snad the dish, add two coats of water borne varnishes to seal it (or a sealer of your choice) and you are good to go.

By finding the post I did on building my rim sander and on making sanding dishes you will see my set up also.

Hope this helps!

Shane

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Canada

kinda like my bowl profile fixture in the Library of Plans. I made interchangable guide inserts for each bowl radius I use.

Yes this is a blaten attempt to promote the library of plans

MichaelP38663.5916203704

   Charlie, as far as pouring concrete, you really don`t need to dig a footing. What you`re wanting IMHO is a "floating slab". It`ll move as much as it needs to with weather\temp changes that way. You might want to dig a small trench (8"x8") for extra strength under walls. Just remember that you`re not building a national monument, so a shop\shed doesn`t need to be overbuilt when it comes to a concrete floor, so a vast amount of steel rebar isn`t necessary. The Good Lord willing, it`ll still be there when we`re all gone. Don`t forget to check your local building codes. A building inspector can be a friend and an enemy at times.

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

okay, moving backwards here:
Cocephus - had a brain flash & realised I don't need to do the false
front / slab thing at all: instead I'm going to put up a stud partition, giving
me 2 rooms: one for dust & machinery (6x11) and one for wood, benches,
and a dehumidifier (13x11) & put the door in the partition. It will also help
tie the whole structure together - and probably be much cheaper in dollars
& minutes than the slab!

Felt downright smart for a minute when I thought of it....

[QUOTE=ToddStock]Back from the Yukon (literally...), so here's some
shots of the plate jig and notes.[/quote]
Welcome back - and thanks for the pix & tips!

[quote=ToddStock]On routers - I'm a new guy re: making guitars, so take
this for what it's worth: ...the quick answer on routers is that yes - a
laminate trimmer will handle anything I've needed a router to do on an
instrument, but building jigs and molds might require larger bits that
make the beef and lower speeds of a full-sized router a safer, better bet.
[/quote]
I'll take that to heart & not expect a trimmer to do a (real) router's job!

[quote=ToddStock]The curved radius guides are made by taking your
desired radius and subtracting the difference between the top of the
guide and the surface of the plate...this is generally only 1.25 to 1.5
inches, so not that big a deal if you just use a radius template from LMI,
etc (error is 1.25" in 15 feet...acceptable). Otherwise, use an offset block
to correct the radius.[/quote]
Well, I thought you were going to lose me here, but if there's a radius
template, then I'm good - though I wouldn't know an offset block from
Adam's left bullock...(yeah, I know, what's a dummy like me wanna make
a guitar for?)

[quote=ToddStock]As to what to buy...FWIW, the new Ridgid variable
speed trimmer is great, as is the Bosch Colt...get a variable speed trimmer
to handle both smaller diameter bits and the larger binding sets.

For a full size router, the PC 690 series has been the old standby, but if
you are starting out, look for either the Bosch or PC 2 hp tools. Router
tables are easy to make, but if you'd rather make guitars than tools, the
Bench Dog stuff is reasonable.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the Colt is the one I was admiring in the magazines recently. All my
power tools are currently PC (yeah, "all" - a circular saw, cordless drill & a
finish sander) & I like 'em pretty good. I was thinking my next power tool
would be a Grizzly 550....and that great price they're offering may not last
forever, so it may still be; but you've definitely made the case for a
trimmer, as well as a router.

Again, I can't thank you enough for sharing your expertise & experience!

MichaelP - I will *definitely* spend time in the plans library!

Another of those "DOH"!! moments. When I read some of Todd's post about the arcs I started thinking about the process I have been using to make the dishes I use and sell from my website and got concerned! I make my carriage for the router from arcs that are produced on autocad by a friend of mine. My carriage sets my router base 2.5 inches 'inside' the arc. So I called my buddy up and said "Doug!, I need new arcs drawn, 2.5 inches less than the arcs I want!" So he calmed me down and we drew comparisions, at either end of sizes of the 6 arcs I use to make dishes. So the questions was at 12 inches (I make 24 inch diametre dishes) how much difference is there between the two arcs. We looked at a 12 foot arc (my tightestest) and a 30 foot arc (my flatest). The difference over 12 inches on a 12 foot arc comapred to a 11' 9.5" arc is .0089 inches about 1/128 of an inch. On a 30 foot arc the difference is .0014 inches about 1/512 of an inch. So, since the process is no where near that precise anyway, I sleep better! Thanks Todd, you got me checking out for quality and thinking about an issue I should have thought about in the beginning. So I post this mostly to let others know the tolerances we are talking about with these huge arcs.

Thanks

Shane

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Canada

[QUOTE=ToddStock] My mom used to tell me that I worried her as well.
Come to think of it, she was not the only one.[/QUOTE]
All the best people worry their mothers (and yes, the worst people, too)


[quote=ToddStock]Good luck - I'm looking forward to seeing the post on
your #1...[/quote]
Thanks - 'course, the first one might take me a year...