Official Luthiers Forum!

My builder friend is on his way back from hanging out at Gene Baker's shop and is finally starting to get serious about CNC. Unfortunately Gene and the local guy who mills his bridges both use BobCAD/CAM, so he's considering it. I don't want it. I've read bad things about it online and don't know that many other guitar builders who use it. I don't see people posting how to carve a neck with BobCAD.

Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about it? Or any ammo I can use to dissuade this guy? The fact that his two closest CNC buddies use it is tough to counter. *I* don't know these guys and I'm more comfy asking questions of people I know here and on other forums who use Rhino.

I have my heart set on Rhino. For CAM I've tried some really low-end packages and think we need something better. I haven't demo'd it yet, but VisualMill seems like the likely candidate. I was curious if any functionality is lost in the RhinoCAM plugin version? Is that a better way to go rather than buying standalone VisualMill?

Also, does anyone know if we get multiple installs with Rhino and VisualMill/RhinoCAM? Can we run it on a machine in the shop and in the house? Do they have dongles? Does BobCAD/CAM?

I had imagined we'd pass models back and forth to work on them. He's the guitar builder but I have 3D modeling experience. He's never used CNC before. If dongles are involved then we're going to have to setup one machine as a workstation and take turns or pass the dongle back and forth.

...Athena

_________________
_________________________________________
http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na3/Portfolio/Port.html

I'll let someone else chime in if they have significant BobCAD experience, but I've not heard of anyone buying it because it was the right tool for the job rather than because it was the least expensive. I know it isn't on par with Moi3D or Rhino for CAD, and I recommend either depending on which you can afford. VisualMill is good CAM software.

I've seen no good reason to get RhinoCAM unless at a significant discount. It's the same price as Visual Mill proper, but has to run within Rhino and may not be as full featured. That makes it a nerfed Visual Mill at the same cost. If MadCAM is within your budget, then I'd consider it a good alternative to Visual Mill. Compare features to price on both.

No multiple installs with Rhino, and doubt it with VisualMill. It's possible you might be able to install on multiple computers if only one copy is running at a time.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I run a single copy of Rhino on my desktop and on my laptop. I do the same with Visualmill, but I have to remember to grab the dongle and I'm always afraid of losing it.

I've never heard anything good about BobCAD but can't knock it since I haven't tried it. I do know that I wasted a lot of time with VectorCADCAM. I should have just ponied up for Visualmill in the first place. My router is running smoother than ever with fewer glitches.

I had RhinoCAM originally but found it slowed Rhino down so much I unistalled it. Plus I didn't like the fact that if I wanted to upgrade to Rhino 4, I'd have to upgrade RhinoCAM at the same time. Now that I've used Visualmill for a bit, I'm starting to see the value in RhinoCAM. When you update a drawing in Rhino there a lot fewer steps to update your toolpaths in RhinoCam than in Visualmill.

I have a k2 3925 and use rhino and Bobcad v23. It does what it is supposed to. I have no desire to learn the cad side of BC. That's cool that Gene Baker uses it.

Athena,

I used Bobcad/cam from 1991 until 2002-03. It ruined me to real cad and cam. Everything about it was wrong compared to conventional cad/cam. Once I tried Rhino and Madcam, I never looked back. My production time is better, my designs are better and my tool paths are better!

Might I make you a suggestion. Download Rhino V4 and the demo for Madcam 4. Rhino gives you like 25 saves and Madcam is timed as well as a limit to the number of code. BTW, if you need more time with Madcam, ask!

Yes.....your customer can own Bobcad/cam for less inital money, but I promise you that he will lose in the long run.

Mike

Thanks guys. I'm sold on Rhino and VisualMill but I will take a look at Madcam. I could end up getting stuck using Bob until I can afford to buy both for myself. Or at least Rhino.

Nobody has had any problem with their dongles? Especially those who move them between 2 machines? My Lightwave dongle stays put now, but years ago when I moved it to a machine at a post house on the weekends I had a dongle fail on me. Right before a major deadline. I had to ship it back and wait for them to ship me a new one.

He wants to get a K2 3925. Anybody have the new servo version? That's the only thing listed on their website now. No stepper 3925. He's keeping an eye out for a used one but I haven't seen a lot of them for sale.

Thanks again,
...Athena

_________________
_________________________________________
http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na3/Portfolio/Port.html

I have the servo version of the K2 3925 (also with 8" z). I like it, I've had good success with it. It has adequate repeatability for guitar work. Easy setup and pretty straightforward operation.

I made pretty much everything on my website with it, if your friend is looking for some examples of what the machine would allow him to do (after spending way too much time out in his shop for about 3 years, anyway).

Trev

_________________
http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Hey Athena, Good choice with Rhino, I've haven't found anything I haven't been able to do with it and we have been using it for a bit over a year now. I've never had any problems with my RhinoCAM dongle and I switch between computers often, sometimes several times a day. I can't really help with the machine though, we have a Techno we got a killer deal on.

Hope this helps,
Josh

_________________
Josh Garrett
Galloup Guitars CNC