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This is a bit off topic but, thought some might enjoy seeing it. My wife and I spent the day walking around Sao Paulo today and visited Trianon Park in the heart of the city. It was the first established park for the preservation of the native trees and floral here in Sao Paulo and it was set up in the year 1892. Found some interesting things and wanted to share a couple of photos we took. The first is a park bench built from a Brazilian Rosewood tree...the second is a photo of a standing Pau Ferro tree. Some of the trees are over 400 years old and beautiful. Wish you all could visit and see them first hand. It's a great place. Took lots more pics and will post them on our site in the next few days. It's a beautiful place and we had a great relaxing day getting away from it all. I made a screensaver with the park bench photo and if anyone would like to have it...just email me and I'll send it to you. If I get a lot of requests...I'll post it on our site in a zip file for easy download.

Wow.

That's gotta be just about the most valuable park bench (potentially) in the world.

Mattia..I'd say it's right up there. This place is so cool though. It's like visiting the Amazon right in the heart of the city. We learned a lot about the biodiversity of the trees and plants here. I've lived in many parts of the US and always said it was God's country but, I've come to realize he put his hand in every land. Each country I've visited (or lived) has something that makes it unique to all the others. Brazil's uniqueness has to be the diversity of plant life. So many varieties of fruit too. And I've learned something I never knew. The cashew (nut) comes from a fruit !! And I thought I knew just about everything.. Brazilwood38668.8274652778

I got woken up by the park police once for taking a nap on that park bench. It is a peaceful place and on a hot humid tropical afternoon after a big lunch you tend to get sleepy.
If you get a chance go down to Praca da Se and walk through the cathedral. They renovated it a few years back and everything in it is Brazilian Rosewood. Huge doors about 3 inches thick and 20 feet tall in solid BRW!! It is quite amazing so check it out if you get a chance.    

Robbie..I wondered if you had ever been to that park. It is a relaxing place..it's such a shame they didn't preserve a larger amount of land. And i will go check out the cathedral next time I go to Gasometro. But, I won't take my camera That's not the safest part of Sao Paulo to go looking like a tourist.

Jeff
What a beautiful setting. Some day I would love to visit some of the rain forest around your area. When I think about all of the untapped medicinal cures that are there, that man hasn't found yet, it just stuns me. God put everything that we as a species would ever need in those forests.(IMHO) I firmly beleive that a cure for every desease we have encountered, or will, is just waiting for us to find it. I hope and pray that we get the chance.

Years ago when I had a business importing and selling exotic hardwoods (as well as owning/running a sawmill in Guyana) I sold about 400,000 board feet of greenheart and purpleheart to make park benches for New York City.

The need was for a wood that would hold up to graffitti being carved into it as well as people burning in their initials with lighters. At that time (late seventies) the average lifespan for slats for benches in NYC was less than 2 years which made maintenance very expensive.

The greenheart and purpleheart was dipped in large 500-800 board foot bundles in a large vat of Nelsonite. Nelsonite is a wood stabilizer that penetrates the wood pores and then dries and seals the pores. Once the wood was sealed the bundles were then painted (by dipping) with a dark green oil based paint so that the type of wood was indistinguishable.

Once in service these slats lasted many times longer. I have no idea but there may be some benches that are still in service that underneath grime, chewing gum and paint are actually purpleheart or greenheart.

Doug..I totally agree. I sometimes wish I knew more about natural healing through plants and herbs. Most of our medicines of today were initially found in plant life. Here in Brazil, on almost every street corner you will find small booths or carts where the locals sell the herbs and plants known here to treat or cure certain illnesses. These cures have been passed down by the generations, much like some of the US remedies were passed down through the Native American Indians. Much of this knowledge and practice has been ignored as unfounded remedies but, many are resorting back to natural healing. I too think there are thousands of untapped resources here for medicines. I really liked the movie "Medicine Man" with Sean Connery. I think there was so much truth and foresight in that movie. If you ever want to come to Brazil...let me know. It's an experience I think many americans would benefit from.

Jeff,

Please send me that park bench...

Thanks.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I have sepnt many hours on Rua do Gasometro looking for wood. I will be there in Janaury as a matter of fact. I always pick up a couple of duffle bags full of cedro rosa when I am there.
The cathedral is really worth the visit and take some pics of the BRW and post here for all to see. If you like Japanese food, walk over to Liberdade from Se and you can get some good tasting stuff. If you go on Saturday you can eat at the street market.

Heh. I'm a mite more skeptical about everything being heal-able, and certainly about every useful drug we'd ever need occurring in nature. Basic materials to refine and improve on and all sorts of potential new treatments, sure.

Herbal medicine is accepted by pretty much everyone as having a lot to offer, but most scientists and doctors (myself as a future doctor included) prefer to look for the active ingredient in the natuaral product, if necessary synthesize it, refine it, get the dose/response relationship sorted out, the toxicity sorted out, and then use it in a more controlled clinical setting. Remember that quite a few modern drugs are 'herbal' in origin, including aspirin, digoxin (heart medication), various taxanes (used in chemotherapy).

The 'mysticism' involved with too much of herbal lore is often quite a bit more dubious, and ignores the fact that 'natural' in no way autmatically eqautes to 'good' or even 'safe', and something isn't 'better' simply because it was made in a test tube, not synthesized in a lab. The key is to examine traditional remedies, etc. for actual effectiveness. Not dismiss them out of hand, but to look at them critically, as one would any other form of medical treatment.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] I'm a mite more skeptical about everything
being heal-able, and certainly about every useful drug we'd ever need
occurring in nature. Basic materials to refine and improve on and all sorts
of potential new treatments, sure.[/quote]
I share your skepticism that everything can be healed (at least in the
throw-away-your-crutches sense), but virtually every effective remedy
has its origin as a raw natural substance and has often NOT been
improved by the application of technology's magic wand.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente]Herbal medicine is accepted by pretty much
everyone as having a lot to offer, but most scientists and doctors (myself
as a future doctor included) prefer to look for the active ingredient in the
natuaral product, if necessary synthesize it, refine it, get the dose/
response relationship sorted out, the toxicity sorted out, and then use it
in a more controlled clinical setting.[/quote]
You're certainly correct about that - but it has far more to do with patents
& industrial production than with "improvement" in any strict medical
sense. Indeed, the quest for isolatable "active principles" serves
accountants more than patients, as many times those actives are much
more dangerous & riddled w/ side-effects in isolation than their original
herbal context.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente]The 'mysticism' involved with too much of herbal
lore is often quite a bit more dubious, and ignores the fact that 'natural'
in no way autmatically eqautes to 'good' or even 'safe', and something
isn't 'better' simply because it was made in a test tube, not synthesized in
a lab. The key is to examine traditional remedies, etc. for actual
effectiveness. Not dismiss them out of hand, but to look at them critically,
as one would any other form of medical treatment.[/QUOTE]
One could profitably apply the same skepticism to the mystical belief of
many "scientists" that application of technology & dissociation from
original chemical context is always a good thing for everyone - that
"testing," "clinical evaluation" and "FDA-approval" automagically impart
safety and efficacy. You make the very point, though I suspect it was
inadvertent: something is NOT better simply because it was isolated in a
test-tube or synthesised in a laboratory.

They key, as you imply, is to critically examine ALL remedies, not just the
traditional, and to correct for the assumptions and agendas of shamans
modern as well as ancient.

[QUOTE=chmood] You make the very point, though I suspect it was
inadvertent: something is NOT better simply because it was isolated in a
test-tube or synthesised in a laboratory.

They key, as you imply, is to critically examine ALL remedies, not just the
traditional, and to correct for the assumptions and agendas of shamans
modern as well as ancient.[/QUOTE]

Yep, all that's true. Each and every drug/treatment needs to be critically evaluated on its own strengths.

Big Pharma creates a world of issues that I can't even begin to tackle, nor do I wish to, really; it's a bigger problem in the US and the third world than it is here, but it really is a serious issue the world over.

In natural context, many things have fewer side effects, but often as not, they also have fewer beneficial effects. The 'problem' with natural remedies is that they're by their nature inconsistent, just like wood, and there's nothing to be done short of testing each batch to 'check' for strength. And that's a very real problem when it comes to day to day medical practice. As long as we can't create tailored-to-the-patient remedies (cf. the growing field of pharmacogenetics, at least in terms of R&D), best at least have standardizable doses.Mattia Valente38669.682962963

Mattia and Charlie..you have both pointed out very valid issues and it's obvious that you are both way more intelligent than I am. One point I would emphasize though...in my spiritual belief, I think God's creations are perfect and he gave us a solution for every need. Whether the solution is found in plant life or our own faith, every sickness has a cure. Many are healed with placebo's. So, the power of the mind itself can heal and work miracles. Doctors nor Scientists have an answer for that. I understand your point Mattia about isolating the active ingredients to make them more standardized in potency. As you pointed out..even wood properties differ within the same species depending on their origin. Brazilian Rosewood from Bahia is VERY different from Brazilian Rosewood from Santos due to soil conditions, amount of rainfall, sunlight, elevation..etc. So, the same would go for medicinal properties in plants. The variation in strengths would definitely be different from one region to another. To standardize this would just make good sense. One point you made though Mattia I would choose to question is eliminate the toxicity of some of the plants. Doctors and Scientists really understand so little (though they might believe otherwise), I think it's highly possible the toxicities of the plants can actually be the cure. The toxic contents of the plant may be what actually kills the virus or gene that causes the illness. Chemotherapy is an excellent example. Who would think that something so invasive to the body, and makes a person so sick, that it could have any positive results. We really have lots to learn when it comes to medicine. I believe many plants hold the key...we just haven't done the necessary testing to gain enough knowledge. I'm just thankful there are those far more intelligent than myself to sort through it all. I don't depend on my intelligence, I depend on my faith in God to walk me through another day.

[QUOTE=Brazilwood] One point I would emphasize though...in my spiritual belief, I think God's creations are perfect and he gave us a solution for every need. Whether the solution is found in plant life or our own faith, every sickness has a cure. Many are healed with placebo's. So, the power of the mind itself can heal and work miracles. Doctors nor Scientists have an answer for that.[/quote]

I am more of a skeptic than you are, that much is certain, but that doesn't mean anything about 'smarts'. It is a field I've been studying for a few years, though.

The placebo effect is undoubtedly real, and the power of the body to heal itself is nothing short of amazing. Where that comes from is a matter for personal interpretation; I just see the amazing diversity and complexity of nature, of biology, of psychology blending together.

[quote] I understand your point Mattia about isolating the active ingredients to make them more standardized in potency. As you pointed out..even wood properties differ within the same species depending on their origin. Brazilian Rosewood from Bahia is VERY different from Brazilian Rosewood from Santos due to soil conditions, amount of rainfall, sunlight, elevation..etc. So, the same would go for medicinal properties in plants. The variation in strengths would definitely be different from one region to another. To standardize this would just make good sense.[/quote]

Indeed. Standardizing growing conditions might help, but plants will remain variable. And there's a real problem with variability when it comes to amounts of (highly) active natural ingredients vis: toxicity, which I'll address below.

[quote] One point you made though Mattia I would choose to question is eliminate the toxicity of some of the plants. Doctors and Scientists really understand so little (though they might believe otherwise), I think it's highly possible the toxicities of the plants can actually be the cure. The toxic contents of the plant may be what actually kills the virus or gene that causes the illness. Chemotherapy is an excellent example. Who would think that something so invasive to the body, and makes a person so sick, that it could have any positive results. We really have lots to learn when it comes to medicine. I believe many plants hold the key...we just haven't done the necessary testing to gain enough knowledge. I'm just thankful there are those far more intelligent than myself to sort through it all. I don't depend on my intelligence, I depend on my faith in God to walk me through another day. [/QUOTE]

Couple of things: very few (let's almost say 'no') effective antivirals have been found anywhere, ever. There are drugs that slow or limit viral spread, but to date, nothing much that can actually get rid of a virus, particularly retroviruses which enocde themselves into DNA. I also can't foresee any medical means (ie, natural plant extracts) to undo genetic ailments, purely because of the complexity associated with genetically carried diseases/ailments. Even gene therapy remains, for now, largely a pipe dream when it comes down to most syndromes/diseases. If we're talking genetic conditions that symptomatic approaches can't heal, medical technology, if anything, is most likely to provide answers.

Also, Scientists and Doctors (the good ones, anyway) are painfully, fully aware of the limits of their knowledge. They are, however, perfectly lousy at communicating with the public, as a rule, and mainstream science reporting (newspapers, TV, etc.) is so rife with innacuracies that I cringe almost every time I read/watch science reporting in mainstream media.

The awareness of the limits of knoweldge is where the drive to discover more, the experimentation, the fundamental and applied research comes in. We use a lot of drugs that we don't know the working mechanisms for. We know they work better than placebos and we do the best we can to ensure they don't have (too many) undesired side-effects, but we don't really know why or how they work. Paracetamol is an example of a drug that's been used for many, many years, but whose mechanism of action is anything but fully understood. The reason scientists want to elucidate the mechanism of action is that it provides insight into how a certain substance does something, both positive (desired effect) and negative (undesired side-effect), which could lead to more efficiently targeted drugs that can be used at higher (more effective) doses without the nasty side effects.

Re: toxicity, it's well known that a number of toxic elements can have beneficial effects, so I don't worry about that in terms of medical research. In fact, pretty much every drug in use is toxic to some degree; after all, you're messing about with the body's delicately balanced internal systems. One of the key stages in any pharmacological research is investigating its pharmacokinetics (how it distrubutes in the body) and pharmacodynamics (how it works, and how toxic it is). There has to be a balance between the toxic effects (undesriable) of a substance and the desirable effects. Chemo is a textbook example of an extremely toxic treatment; that level of toxicity is only acceptable because of the effect it can have, and the seriousness of the disease it is designed to treat. I wouldn't worry too much that things get thrown out purely because of toxicity, because if they're found to have some effect, even with HUGE side effects, the race is on to isolate that positive effect the substance has from the negative without (if possible) affecting its potency.

It never ceases to amaze me the level of intelligence that is found on this forum. Mattia, I fully respect your knowledge of medice and would probably put my life in your hands, if a situation ever called for it. The hours, months and years you must spend learning all of the things a doctor must know, stuns me.
Five months ago I finished treatment for Hep C 1-A. I had to take a shot of Interferon once a week, and four pill daily of Pegasus for a full year. My viral count was at the 7 digit level. (over a million) I thank God that He put people and plants on this earth so that I did have something to battle the Hep C with. But to tell you the honest truth, I was not putting my hopes in the drugs or the doctor. I was putting my hopes in the people that were praying for me and in the Lord.
I was very sick from the drugs for the whole year, but I made it through, and now the viral count is below 2800. They can't even find it any more. But the more important fact for me was that through that year, I had peace. I didn't worry about if it was going to work or not. It was not a matter of denile, or hiding my head in the sand. I had true peace.
That is something no drug or doctor could give me.