Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey All,

Just started found this forum and signed up and thought I'd ask a few questions about the project I'm beginning. It's a spalted maple cap over mahogany. Before I get to the questions, I'll start with the eye candy....











Ok, so here are the things I'm pondering at the moment...

STABILIZING
i know it needs to be done and right now, I'm leaning towards epoxy. If I had my way i would do an oil finish on this but i just hate the idea of putting oil over a plasticy product. I've been reading some wood turning sites where guys are using shellac to stabilize but I feel like it wouldn't be hard enough. I've also had someone recommend thinning tru-oil and using that - Any thoughts on this would be great. It doesn't seem to be that punky but I'm not an expert by any means! Here are some extreme close ups of some of the spalty areas.





The other question I had about the stabilizing -- should i stop at the mahog or just do the entire body? I know it needs to be grain filled and that epoxy is sometimes used for this but it's usually with a thicker consistency so I'm just wondering if I DO go with the epoxy what the order of things should be before i get started.

HARDWARE
I'm not doing traditional as you can see from the HB route. It's going to be a cross between tele/paul - So...I'm struggling with bridge ideas. I originally wanted to do a hipshot babygrand but I don't like the idea of having to recess it into the body a bit and I'm not comfortable with that. I came across this last night and thought it might be a safer alternative. i'd rather screw up the neck than this body.

http://reviews.ebay.com/LUTHIER-TIP-ELI ... 0005372106

I'm putting a carvin neck on it with Steinberger Gearless Tuners and i was thinking about trimming down the head stock and doing a 4+2 config. anybody done anything like that or seen a post that I could refer too?

Well, I think that's probably it for now...I'm sure i'll have other ideas and questions as this thing takes shape.

Looking forward learning a bit more from you all here.

Thanks in advance!
Troy

If I knew how to howl like a wolf on here I would! I love, and I mean, I love spalted wood. That piece is spectacular. I also notice you did not make the same mistake I just made on the back radius! I used what looks like the same radii cutter as you, only I made it all the way around the cut away, back of the neck pocket et al! I'll be using something other than the rear plate to attach the neck with!

I can't wait to see this one finished.

Mike

edited to add.....why not just taper the neck pocket a little or better yet, shim the neck a little? That way it is not perm....perm.....forever!

Thanks Mike!

So have you worked with spalted maple before? Do you have any ideas on something I can use to stabilize it that would work with an oil vanish. I was over at a wood working forum and someone mentioned danish oil might work. I'm assuming it would have to thin down quite a bit for the wood to soak it up but that would certainly help my problem. Then I could use it to stabilize/seal the spalt, fill the mahog,(using the wet sand slurry method) and as a final finishing coat as well. I know it does wonders for grain so it would be awesome if it would work.

Yes, I've thought about the neck pocket VS shim VS tapering the neck and the neck seems like the easiest. it's also easily replaced if I "F" it up! I don't want to shim, if I can help it...would like to have a nice clean contact all the way around the pocket.

Hi Troy,

Yes I have worked with quite a bit of spalted wood, and some of it was so punky I did not think it would work. This was not with guitars though, so I don't know how it well it would work for a guitar top. I did use epoxy to harden/stabilize the punky wood.

The piece I remember the most was spalted Sycamore. I used a slow dry laminating epoxy and let the wood soak all the epoxy it would soak. Some of it took so much I was a little afraid I would change the weight of the piece I was working on. After it hardened, it sanded just like the rest of the wood. However, I did coat all the wood so I would have an even color since it was amber tinted epoxy.

Just as a vote on your finish, it just has to be high gloss on spalted to make that wood glow!


Here is what I made from the spalted Sycamore.

Mike

I'd really like to finish with an oil based varnish...would that work for stabilizing if i started with a very thin mixture and apply until it stops drinking it up?

Troy typically oil based anything does not get real hard. You could thin the epoxy with acetone and let it soak in, harden then repeat with the oil based varnish. I don't really think you will ever know the epoxy is under the oil, and it will harden the wood much better than oil will. My opinion, but based on what I have learned with a couple thousand gunstocks finished.

Mike

ps and about 20 of them were spalted wood too!

So Something like tru-oil or a "tung oil" finish would work ok over the Epoxy? I figured the epoxy would seal it off so a finish like that wouldn't penetrate the wood as it should.

If I were to do that would it be better to mask off the mahogany and do the thin epoxy only on the maple - - then I could come back and use it full strength on the back and sand back to fill the grain.

Thanks, Mike!

If you use a pure tung oil over epoxy... it won't stick well, because oil is a penetrating finish, and of course, it won't pass through epoxy. If you use a Polymerized oil (Poly tung oil, boiled linseed oil, etc..) It could work, because these are formuled to create a film of finish on the surface. Definitly run some tests before.

I would also warn you that epoxy could stain the spongious parts of spalted. In fact, pretty much anything will stain these parts... cause, obviously, they are like sponge, and absord much of the product you apply on it. Again, run tests if you don't want to get some color you don't want.

An another test you could run, is to directly apply tung oil on the spault. I'm curious to know if it could works. 2-3 coats of pure tung oil, that would penetrates the wood. Let it cure well, it plasticize the wood fibers (and hardens, of course). Then you could continue with polymerized, that would fill the ''pores'' and create a surface finish.

Good luck, and let us know the results.

By the way, I'm on my way to begin a telecaster too, with 2 HB, and was thinking about rounder edges, 'cause I don't like the ''squareness'' of the telecaster. You gave me a good example, thanks! Are you gonna put a pickguard or not, on this?

Francis

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

I would be hesitant to use straight tung since from what i've heard it doesn't dry all that well and would stay tacky for a long time. it seems like putting polymerized finish over the uncured tung would keep it that way for even longer. My thought was not to use pure anything but something more like watco, minwax tung, or tru-oil (my fav)


Not on your life! That would be a crime, for sure!

I've thrown in the towel and I'm going with either epoxy or minwax hardener.

I'm just wondering how much I'll need to get the job done.

Also, the minwax says you can stain the wood after which makes me think it leaves it semi porous. Has anyone tried this?